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And do you like the new header? Totally rocks! Created by the awesome Retro Zombie Jeremy - contact him if you'd like an interactive header as well. You the man, Jeremy!
Mark Koopmans is hosting his annual Got Green? Blog O’ Hop on March 15.
Scattergun Scribblings is hosting the Overcoming Adversity Blogfest February 4-5. Entries will be compiled into a book and the proceeds will go to funding college for his son, Andrew, who has cerebral palsy.
SA Larson created this writer’s creed. See her site to sign up and get your badge.
Hilde McQueen’s latest book is out, Where the Four Winds Collide. Congratulations, Hildie!
“It's stupid to fall for your brother's ex. It's even worse to enlist another's help to win the ex over…”
Find Becca Ann on Facebook
Find her book on Goodreads and purchase the eBook or paperback at Amazon.
And don’t forget to save the date for my next blogfest, March 18 – to be announced next month!
Mel has worked so long and hard on this book, and it’s finally available!
ML Chesley.
website. You can also follow her blog or on Facebook.
Purchase Adversarius Amazon or Smashwords.
Congratulations, Mel!!!
Movie Trivia Answers? This is Spinal Tap
Hosted by the awesome LG Keltner, we are to post about our writing beginnings.
Want to know how CassaStar began?
There were many influences. I was always a Star Trek fan. Star Wars came along and redefined movies and space operas. I enjoyed the likes of Bradbury and Heinlein.
And then, a single image for an upcoming TV series caught my attention:
Frank Frazetta’s artwork for the series Battlestar Galactica.
What ignited my imagination was the setting – a rocky planet and a downed ship. The characters, stranded and ready to defend themselves, also caught my attention. (And in the central character, you can probably see the beginnings of Byron.) I imagined two people, a pilot and a navigator, their fighter shot down on a rocky planet and forced to make a sacrifice.
That scene, written when I was a teen, was the only part of the original story to survive. (And the scene changed some during the rewrite.) But that image ignited the story behind CassaStar, which eventually became my first published book. Now it’s an Amazon Best Seller and has spawned two sequels.
A picture really is worth a thousand words!
Excited about the new books and blogfests? Are you picking up Adversarius? Get any of the movie trivia right? And how did your writing begin?
Don’t forget to visit M. Pax’s Spacedock 19!
149 comments:
You had some great influences there. Thanks for participating in my blogfest! And your new header is awesome!
I enjoyed learning about the motivation for CassaStar! Your new header looks great Alex! Jeremy did a terrific job. Congrats to the authors, and I'll have to check out some of these blogfests.
Julie
Wow, your new header caught my attention right away - it's awesome!
Nice to find out where it all started. The new header is very eye catching - well done Jeremy!
I missed the last Got Green? blog hop, so I'll be taking part this time. Should be a blast!
Thanks for the shout out!
Love the header!
And yes, Frazetta is the man.
Mmm... I started writing "poetry" (i.e. silly long rhymes) when I was seven or eight.
First novel started when a character walked into my head while I was reading. I was thirteen. :-D
It's amazing that one picture can inspire so much, and that in itself is inspiring. :)
Cool new header!
Lots of great blog fests and links today. Jeremy is so talented! I'll hit M. Pax soon. I'm not surprised to see Battlestar Galactica being a major influence for Casastar. :)
Great to hear the beginnings of Cassastar! I think pictures can be really inspiring, too...I've frequently wished I could draw instead of write. :)
I love the header!
I can see how that picture would inspire you. Neat beginning!
This is Spinal Tap is so awesome. Thanks for the heads up about the Overcoming Adversity blogfest.
Star Trek was the thing that inspired me to create stories as well :)
Love that echo of Battlestar G in your story - awesome!
LG, thanks for hosting!
Nick, you're welcome.
Ciara, you can probably see that really easily!
Hey there!
I love your new header. When it's time for a new look I think I'll contact Jeremy too! I'll treat myself when I hit a certain number of page views!
Your new header is AWESOME!!!!!!!! Really, really, really cool. It feels like a videogame in here now!
Congratulations to Mel and all the authors with new books. And Alex, nice to hear about your inspiration. I love hearing how books began.
Love the new header! And Frazetta has inspired a lot of folks, I think. You're in great company there.
Love the awesome header! Beautiful work, Jeremy.
Enjoyed your interview over at Spacedock 19 with Mary. Yes, please discuss cloning next. :)
Congrats on the new releases, Hilde, Becca, and Mel.
Frazetta is head and shoulders above everyone else when it comes to those sorts of paintings.
Like the new look!
I love that you've had the story all these years and finally acted on it to such success. Very inspiring for another late starter. Though only in my actual writing. My story premises are much more recent.
I should've known A Fish Called Wanda. I love that movie! And I love Frank Frazetta. He's one of the few artists I used to try to emulate.
I'm loving Frazetta's picture. It's mezmerizing. I think it's awesome, too, that you wrote a scene as a teen, with the picture as your inspiration for CS, Alex. Very cool.
Thanks as always for all the tasty bites of info. I'll be checking out the blogfests.
xoRobyn
As always-- great information. The new header looks fantastic.
I also liked Galactica. Never missed it. I think it was movies who inspired me to start writing too. Movies and way too much time alone.
Jolie, he does a great job.
Cathy, like a videogame - funny!
Laura, cloning is on the list.
Donna, it's never too late.
Robyn, that scene was just so powerful.
Great Battlestar Galactica picture! This series is one of my favourites.
Interesting to know how Cassastar came about. Great post.
Yvonne.,
I absolutely LOVE your new header. Wow. Cool. And the fact that that teaser picture for Battlestar Galactica was the impetus for CassaStar is fascinating. So amazing how inspiration strikes. And I am dying to read How I Fell for the Funny Fat Girl. So many books, so little time...
Whoa! That header is totally awesome!
Love to hear how CassaStar came into being.
Oh, hey, did you know that Indie Life thing I did today was inspired by you? Not my thing in it, but the people that put that together were inspired by you.
Love the new header, Alex! I'm heading over to Spacedock 19 now. :)
Wow! lots of news!
I enjoyed reading about the beginnings of your first book. Thanks for sharing. :)
How cool that an image got you started! It's one of my favorites, too. Sadly, I missed the signup for this blogfest, but I have other surprises in store for today. :)
Flashy new header!
And interesting to find out your novels were inspired by that artwork.
Definitely like the new banner for your blog and also some great info and links. Going to check them out!
Now I REALLY want to read Adversarius. I shall have to keep my eyes out for this one.
Thank you for sharing the story behind part of CassaStar, I love hearing back stories behind books!
Zoltan, it was a favorite of mine.
She'll, just one image started it all...
Andrew, I did!
David, sorry you missed it.
Love the header! Inspiration is everywhere if we are just alert and open to it.
That is a really cool image - I can see why it inspired your writing!
Frank Frazetta is an amazing artist. I'm going to his Website now and spend some time just looking at his images.
And good luck to all the writers and their new releases! 2013 is going to be a great year!
Love the pic and the story behind CassaStar! Pictures are inspiring. I'm saving the date for your fest and Mark's.
And my writing started with the story of a dancing hat . . .and then another about a pencil that escaped from school. (elementary school stories influenced by my love of tap dancing movies, and my strong dislike of school)
Congrats to ML!
Header is awesome :) And that picture is awesome; definitely inspirational... hehee, so punny. Congrats on all the books!
A picture is worth a thousand words indeed. Will read your guest post and thanks for keeping us informed.
I love the new header! Thanks for the news. I'm totally gonna check out Nick's blogfest, and I can't wait to read REASONS.
Al, I do like your new header. Jeremy was done a very, very appropriate job. It evokes a very CassaNinja feel.
I am curious about your blogfest, and Mary Pax, Nicki Elson and I will be announcing one for March 1 this Friday, too.
As for the beginnings of CassaStar, I love that a picture was literally worth a thousand words. And I was also interested to know that the first scene was written in your adolescence! I like that detail very much, the idea of an entire world pulsing with promise since then.
That BSG picture is fantastic.
Love the new header. Signed up for Nick's blogfest. I can see Byron in that picture! I'm getting reallly frustrated. Choosing to read "CassaStar" to my kids was a wrong move. I read to them at bedtime, and at best get a chapter in before they zonk. Sometimes I sneak and read ahead...but don't tell them!
As an old school BSG fan, I'm amazed that I've never seen that picture before....very cool!
I always find it very interesting how just one spark can ignite something bigger.
Better writing through chemistry :)
Nice header, Jeremy!
I'm keeping away from blogfests until April--at least that's my plan. My last couple of weeks with illness and holidays have already set me a year behind in blogging. Please don't come up with any blogfests I can't refuse!
Lee
Tossing It Out
I do love your new header! It amazes me how much things happen every week. I feel so left behind.
So awesome to hear the story behind that! I've always wondered. Can't wait for your blogfest announcement :)
You new header rocks. Love the flash, Alex. Fits with your uniqueness!
Great looking header. It's good to hear how it all began for you too.
What a fun new header!
Great new header! and thanks for all the updates. Best :)
Lots of stuff going on. Always good to come over here to catch up, and find out yet another interesting fact.
Although I'm an avid Bradbury reader (and a couple of Heinlein), and loved BG, I write totally different stuff. Thank goodness for authors like you who feed my addiction to that genre.
Love the new header! Great job, Jeremy. That is cool that BSG inspired you, and that you wrote the first scene as a teen!
Yes I like your new header! Jeremy is really good at creating headers that capture the tone of the blog.
SO techi... so interesting, such fun! Both you and your header.
The cool factor on that banner is very high! One of my buddies approach to painting mini's is inspired by Frazetta.
Nice new banner! I love the golden-brown color scheme.
I've been writing since I was 4 years old, literally as long as I could write. It's just what I've always done, no special inspiration to have started.
I love the new header, Alex! I've been to Spacedock 19 - I'm on my way:)
Cool new header and interesting how one picture can spark an entire series!
Stephen, you could get lost at that site...
Tyrean, a dancing hat! That is definitely original.
Suze, excited to hear about your blogfest! Yes, there was a really crappy first draft of CassaStar written in my teen years, all stemming from that one scene.
Mark, I think the black and white version was in the old TV Guide magazine.
Lee, you might not be able to refuse mine...
Clarissa, it amazes me as well.
Joylene, thank you!
ML, I'm trying.
Carrie-Anne, that's a long time...
Off to visit M-Pax!
Liked to BG artwork :). Hadn't seen it before. Great seeing your inspiration for the start of the Cassa series.
Cool backstory on your book, Alex! And congrats to all the writers in today's post - there's a lot of exciting news swirling about the blogosphere.
Well, it was ST:TNG for me when I was in middle school, though I'd watched the original series and the original Battlestar Galactica in reruns with my dad. I also used to page through my dad's Frank Frazetta art book (though I think there was stuff in there young kids weren't supposed to see).
Very cool that your scene survived all those years (and revisions), Alex.
ML's cover looks awesome!
It was fun and enlightening to talk to you Alex. Glad you visited the Spacedock. Your clones are welcome any time.
Love the new header! And Congrats to ML!
That picture is very inspiring. I loved BSG - the original and the remake.
I thought something looked different over here ;) Thanks for the mention, too! You rock!
And I think the only images that have inspired me are ones of hot guys without their shirts on. That counts, right? :)
Congratulations!
Your new header is an inspiring eye-catcher.
A picture really is worth a thousand words!
I work together with people from different countries and I can't count how often we use pictures.
M Pepper, I bet there was a lot you shouldn't have seen! Oh well.
Emily, the only one that did.
Mary, thanks for having me.
Becca, you are welcome!
Thanks for the information; you are like the Blogger Times:D
I got my Writer's Creed badge, and am off to visit the Beginnings Blogfest, M. Pax, and all the other goodies you have lined up for us.
ooh! Fancy new header is fancy! Blinking lights and everything!
Love the new header.
I started writing back in the dark ages to amuse my friends. It was supposed to be a novel but everyone wanted to be a character, and everyone wanted their character to do this and that, so it ended up being a sprawling continuing story that was still going when my dad got transferred during my senior year (oh, the agony of it all) and we had to move.
Yes, exquisite headboard, love the dynamic light shows.
I love what Jeremy did for your blog header. Very cool--much like Jeremy himself.
I like the sound of Adversarius and the hero's code of honor. I'll be checking that out for sure!
Hope your week is going well, Alex!
Blessings, my friend.
The header is really neat!
I loved the old Battlestar. And had such a crush on Richard Hatch.
Alex,
I did like how the header came out as I described it as... Space battle in the Matrix... thank you for letting me be creative.
So many things going on today, I enjoyed the Battlestar... I as a kid had a cardboard Viper, that I sent in for from the back of cereal box... oh the memories.
Great Day!
Jeremy
The new header is awesome! I'm already signed up for Nick's blogfest, but I'll have to pass on Mark's for a very good reason. I'll be here! :D
Congratulations to Hildie, Becca Ann, and M.L.! I'm off to visit M. Pax now. :)
So interesting hearing your inspiration!
Finally some trivia I knew (well 2 questions anyway).
Not a big sci/fi fan, but I loved Battlestar Galacticia (the original TV)
I do like the new header! Thanks for all the news and notes. Appreciate you keeping us in the loop. I know I'd totally be out of that loop otherwise! :)
I love the header! I see animated pirate ships in my future. :D Thanks for the shout out, Alex!
And my writing started after I created Kayta for a D&D game. Geek to the core! XD
My first writing experience was when I was 8, but my real writing experience was probably when I joined my current writing group 10 years ago. Everything I write comes out twisty and dark no matter how I try the opposite. Horror it is! LOL.
Frank Frazetta’s artwork is amazing. I used to paw all over it when I was young. I get a lot of my writing inspiration from art as well.
There is so much to do and see that I'm not sure what I'm doing next! Love the new header Alex. A million thanks for my book shout out. Have a beautiful day!
Edi, hoping you'll enjoy those last thousand words.
Sarah, I know - it rocks!
LD, you should dig it up.
Sia, he IS cool.
Jeremy, that's funny. And the header rocks.
Carrie, yes, you will be my guest that day!
Mel, you're welcome. And you need to have him do that. Spruce up your header while keeping the ships and the feel.
Lynda, I pawed over it as well, but I'm sure for a different reason.
Hildie, you're welcome!
Thanks for the secret origin of the Cassan universe!
Dunno how you keep up Alex. Liked the sound of Adverstarius so bought it for my Kindle.
Love your new header. Very flash.
No good at movie trivia. Don't get to see too many movies.
Interesting how Cassa Star began.
Love that picture. I never missed an episode of the original Battlestar Galactica.
I believe I have some of his artwork on collector's cards. Fascinating artwork that really drew my eye. I found them in a little shop in a tiny town near the coast of Oregon (while looking for X-Files cards, haha). I do love inspiration in all forms. Wonderful to hear where CassaStar came from.
Shannon at The Warrior Muse
Love the new header. Very cool. And I think it's amazing how your whole life was essentially changed by that picture. Think about it. The blog. All these people. How much would be the same if you'd never seen that and never decided to write Cassa Star? Maybe it all would've happened in some other way, but you never know.
I think that's the best thing about life. How even the most innocuous-seeming things (like a picture) can impact you for years to come. :)
Too much going on! AH!
It's all good though.
Nice getting a glimpse into 'the beginning'.
Thanks for sharing.
Heather
Jo, I just do my best.
Susan, I didn't either!
Shannon, that is very cool! I have a game with his artwork on it.
Tamara, none of it would've happened...
Very cool beginning. A picture or a piece of music an inspire a whole series. I'm off to the Spacedock now!
Alex, I think you are at the point now that you need this comment box at the top of the comment list instead of the bottom :) That is a very cool header and I like it a lot. I will throw some work Jeremy's way if I decide to go that route at some point.
Hey I got three of the four movies I named, right!! Amazing.
Lots going on this first week or so in 2013!
Nothing like starting with a BANG!!!!!!
I got one from the trivia! Yeah! Can't wait to stop by M.Pax's blog to check out the post. :)
Cool banner!
~Stephanie
Chuck, I'll see what I can do about the comment box, And I think one of Jeremy's headers would look awesome on your blog.
Stephanie, glad you got one right.
It was nice to read about your motivation for Cassa Star!
I'll go check out your interview with Pax.
Some really great blog hops coming up and I'm so stoked for Becca's book! :)
I love your header!!! Jeremy rocks, flashes and glows ;D
What the heck...a month? C'mon Captain...no fair-I need a hint!
Off to check out MPax-I miss her~
I'm so behind, but playing catch up is fun!
I love how fun and kind your blog is!
Congrats to all! Mel you rock ;D
Yeah, that image would catch my attention too.
......dhole
Franzetta's Battlestar Galactica is epic. Great inspiration Alex.
Love the new banner. I wondered if Retro Zombie was the creator.
Hard to beat Frazetta, and yes, I can see Byron in that center figure.
I love how the Cassa trilogy, and by extension this blog, came about because of that single image. It's a pretty awesome way to begin :)
Jamie
I'm not surprised that a powerful image you saw as kid helped to inspire your novel. The older I get, the more I'm amazed at how much the world we lived in when young still affect us.
One of these days, I swear I'm gonna answer all your trivia questions.
Hey, it's cool to know how you got started with CassaStar. I didn't realize you began writing it when you were a teen :)
Oh I read and reviewed Adversarius! It's a great book. Congratulations to Mel Chesley :))
Great header! It was interesting reading about what inspired CassaStar.
Dude. Your new banner looks awesome!
Ella, thank you. And I will give you a hint - it involves a top ten list.
DG, figured you would see Byron.
Jamie, it is wild when you think about it.
Helena, don't give up hope that you'll answer them.
Rachel, I did! Many, many years ago...
Michael, you're a speed reader.
Man I love those moments where inspiration strikes is right on down! :) Nice story for the blogfest. I have yet to read any of your books but they are all high up on my TBR!
and thousands of fans!
awesome picture! art is so inspirational!
fabulous new look! love it!
cant wait to see what you do next!
Great new banner! Loved Frazetta's artwork and all the newsy stuff!
Love the new header, noticed it right away :). A new blogfest? Hmmm...I am most intrigued!
Happy Wednesday!
Jen
Awesome banner!!! And so many blogfests to enter. Congratulations to all that have new books out.
I love the story behind the inspiration for CassaStar. That image can really stir some creativity, and I'm glad it caught your eye. I have a funny story about my inspiration for Forged by Greed :-)
I'm off to M Pax's blog to read the post.
I love the new banner! It's spectacular!
The new banner is AWESOME, Alex!!! Love it. =) Going to check out books. =)
Your new header is great!
So what should I do now, shut my blog down or change header?
I totally identify with using artwork for inspiration! I'm working on a high fantasy project, and I've developed a habit of finding scifi and fantasy pictures on pinterest to help me envision locals and characters and even events for my story. :D
Trisha, thank you!!
Tara, I hope I have that many fans.
Angela, you need to post that story.
Jay, or contact Jeremy to do a new one!
Liesel, smart idea.
Oy! Totally forgot it was Wednesday yesterday. Better late than never. Good thing I dropped by. I'd miss all the news without your posts. So many blogfest! And so little time. I loved the BG from the late 70's early 80's. had big crushes in Apollo & Starbuck. Not surprised you'd find it inspiring. Funny where we find that nugget of inspiration.
That's so cool to learn the inspiration behind Cassa Star! I remember when that picture came out! :)
It's amazing what can come from a simple picture. I know I've had my fair share of image-based muses. Love the new header. Absolutely gorge!!!
Alex, the new header is jazzy. I like it.
It boggles my mind when I come here and see all these blog posts I want to visit and all these new books I want to read. I need more hours in my day.
Yes, interesting CassaStar roots.
I love the new header! Awesome lightning effects... very atmospheric!
I enjoyed the Cassastar beginnings...
It seems like the blogfests never end... there are so many new ones...
Nancy, it was a cheesy show, but I dug it.
DL, glad someone else remembered!
Patricia, I am here to boggle...
I love the new header!! Great job, Jeremy!
Alex, lucky you, yes it's me, Penny the Jack Russell dog and modest internet superstar!
You are having another blogfest? We will check that out. We do so hope you join our "Groundblog Day" blogfest. That's "Groundblog", not "Groundhog". Clever, eh?
You are having another blogfest? We will check that out. We do so hope you join our "Groundblog Day" blogfest. That's "Groundblog", not "Groundhog". Clever, eh?
Went by Nick's blog. I'm in. Working on a story tonight. You've got a hear of gold, Alex.
And thanks for the spam info. Followed all. So far, so good. :)))
I'm a very visually-oriented gal, so I can see how this image would've jump started your creativity!
It's truly amazing what can spark a story idea!
As always I can count on you to keep me busy...LOL, Not that I need it, But nice to know what needs checing out :)
Gary, I won't have to listen to I Got You Babe, will I? Gary, I won't have to listen to I Got You Babe, will I?
Thanks, Kittie! And glad that nixed the spam.
Gotta learn outlining...heading over there now. And it turns out that by sheer luck that I DID know the first trivia answer (it just popped into my brain) even though it's been YEARS since I slept through the movie...
Tina @ Life is Good
Thanks for providing these links and all this info. Lots to go through. I especially love the rebel writer's creed.
YES, I love the header! It's perfect for this blog!
I also loved Sheri's writer's creed. It's full of great reminders.
Thanks for sharing all the great news. It's so exiting.
That's a cool story of how you came up with your novel concept!
GOT GREEN!!!!! You know, I'm the reigning champion for that blogfest, I've got to really step it up this year if I'm to win again...
And LOVING the new look...
I'm commenting just ahead of a new post. LOL I'm so far behind, I can't even see what's behind be me anymore.
LOVE the new banner. Jeremy is major-league talented.
Frank Frazetta is one of my all time favorite artists. His Wolfman is on my wall here at home.
What wonderful news all around the blogosphere. I love hearing all this great news.
I love Star Trek too and Star Wars! Though some of my guy friends make fun of me for it since they are "guy movies/shows" but I'm a geek. :)
I'm excited for all of the new blogfests!
That header is FANTASTIC!! I love it!
Thanks for the links and news. I love the new header.
Tina, good for you!
Morgan, the pressure is on.
Melissa, Jeremy did an awesome job.
Krista, no, you are an uber-cool chick in my book!
Hi Alex - so pleased you highlighted Nick's blogfest for his son - raising funds via an anthology - it will be great.
I have to catch up - so much happening - how does anyone keep up ..
Cheers and I love the header - talented bloggers around .. let alone writers! Have a great year - Hilary
I was wondering where you got that great new header! It's awesome!
Jai
Aloha,
I'm about as late as late can be, but wanted to say Cheers for the O'shout out and may your eyes not glaze over if I add to the "Wow, dude, cool new header" gang :) |
IN THE COMMENTS:1jpb said...
Who cares about the iconic appeal?Don't get me started. My family's tragedy was the death of Pierce-Arrow!
Losing Duesenberg and Packard (the early Packards, like mine) that was the loss of icons.
Who cares about the iconic appeal?Don't get me started. My family's tragedy was the death of Pierce-Arrow!
Losing Duesenberg and Packard (the early Packards, like mine) that was the loss of icons.
134 comments:
December 6, 2008: A date which will live in infamy.
They're not only going bankrupt, they're also going to go out and gather up every car they've ever made and destroy those too?
Seems like they would save a lot of money for restructuring by going ahead and letting the Ford and Chevy pickups, the Jeeps and Suburbans and PT cruisers continue to drive around.
Who cares about the iconic appeal?
Loosing Duesenberg and Packard (the early Packards, like mine) that was the loss of icons.
Beyond the, imho, silly iconic chit chat, there are legitimate financial and strategic problems with the decimation of domestic control and development of auto production.
Imagine an America with no more Corvettes! No more Caddies, Trans Ams, Camaros or Mustangs. No Ford or Chevy pick up trucks; no Jeeps or Suburbans. Not one PT Cruiser.
Is that supposed to be good or bad?
I kid, I kid. Who could stand to go without seeing the beautiful PT Cruiser in action?
Why does this blogger think that these cars would be gone? That's not what would happen if the companies were allowed to go bankrupt. These cars would still be made.
Don't worry, our salvation is at hand.
Obama will save us all with his plan for a new Civilian Conservation Corps and Work Projects Administration, and that will revive the economy so greatly that we will all be buying up American cars.
Just imagine all the jobs he will create handing you unemployed people a shovel and telling you to go work a road gang, not to mention all the people working to change light bulbs!
So what if the day laborers down at the 7-11 will get all these new jobs building roads and rebuilding school buildings? Your medical records will be on a computer! So that in itself is going to super-charge our economy!
Yes, a new day is dawning!
Who cares?! Honestly...the Mustang. Does anyone drive those? Anyone besides 16-year-olds in the South? And what's so damned special about the Jeep Cherokee? Chrysler has long since f-ed up the Jeep line. There's what? 15 models now. And they all look the same.
Get over it. American cars are crap. And not only because they are ugly. But because the people who make them are ugly, too. All those damned union workers making god-knows-what for driving a couple screws are finally about to get what's coming to them. Let them compete in the marketplace. Let them justify $25 an hour plus healthcare plus pension in any other industry.
General Motors is dead. Long live Toyota. Chrysler is dead. Long live Honda. Ford is dead. Long live Nissan.
LOL
"No Ford or Chevy pick up trucks; no Jeeps or Suburbans. Not one PT Cruiser. All gone..."
Isn't that the "green" lefty's most orgasmic dream ever? I thought they hated all cars except for the Prius and those ugly little "Smart" cars? They should be happy about this! Better get in shape! That 40 mile bike commute is gonna be murder!
I didn't click on the link because I'm afraid it might not be a joke.
Better safe than sorry.
"I didn't click on the link because I'm afraid it might not be a joke."
Oh it's a joke alright. Not intentionally so, but a joke nonetheless.
"What pathogens could possibly be responsible for KOS?"
Whatever it is, it certainly isn't the contagious happiness from the other day. marks, the brands, the styles and what have you, are tangibles that will survive, thanks to intellectual property. Sure it may all belong to somebody else, but it will survive. Move along now.
The typos are the clue that it's not a joke.
Detroit faces many challenges. The biggest is: innovate or die.
"Rice burning Nissons [sic]"? Sounds like someone's clinging to "antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment."
"all looted by ultra-conservatives eager to punish generations of American workers for the sin of not voting for the GOP in acceptable numbers"
I love the logical inversion demonstrated by the above. Yes, they are being "punished", how? By not getting the taxpayers to subsidize their excessive compensation packages. What is threatened is that they will have to depend on the health of corporations which their unions squeezed the lifeblood out of.
Twin,
There are a lot of odd things about your post, but I'll just address one of them for now:
You wrote:
"The simple fact is that cars can be made just as well in 3rd world countries that aren't bound by obscene 40 hour work weeks, consumer- and worker-safety laws, and retirement plans.
The American worker is going to have to learn to compete with the cheap labor available in Mexico, Haiti, Bangladesh, and throughout the 3rd world."
Third world countries like, what, Tennessee? We're getting a Volkswagen plant in my town next year and couldn't be more thrilled. And we've lost out on at least a half dozen others who went to neighboring states. The South is just full of non-union, good wages, good benefits "foreign" car manufacturers. These are the folks that Detroit can't compete with.
In other words, imagine an America without a bunch of shitty, dangerous gas-guzzling cars and trucks, and without a huge bloated, whiny unionized blue-collar workforce.
Yeah, what will we ever do.
This is our chance to kill off one of the unions. Let's not pass it up, even if it causes further economic woes. We can ultimately lay the blame where it belongs: at the feet of the middle class. It's wake-up time for the overstuffed American comfort class. No more nanny state for the masses.
The middle class has to snap out of it's hippy dippy delusions about "the American Dream," or face the consequences. The global economy simply cannot sustain middle class incomes for a large proportion of the population. The lasting sin of big government/New Deal liberalism was creating the unreasonable expectation that middle class can be sustained at post-New Deal levels. Thanks to the Democrat Party, hundreds of millions of middle class Americans now feel entitled to live in their own homes, have access to world-class health care, and even send their kids to college. That kind of fancy living has never been sustainable for "the masses," as we are learning now. Compare this to India, or China, where 80% of the population lives in poverty, forming a dynamic labor pool that propels their economies.
The simple fact is that cars can be made just as well in 3rd world countries that aren't bound by high wages, 40 hour work weeks, heath care coverage, consumer- and worker-safety legislation, retirement plans, and other Democrat-largess.
The American worker is going to have to learn, like it or not, to compete with cheap labor from, e.g., Mexico and Haiti. And the American middle class is going to have to shrink back down to sustainable levels. That was the whole point of NAFTA and GATT and the other free trade agreements, and we're finally seeing a long-needed reordering of global economic priorities as a result.
Historically dynamic capitalist economies are able to sustain
— a small class of wealthy (1% or so of the population). This is the productive engine that drives investment, innovation
— a modest middle class, maybe 5%-10% of the population, to service corporations and the wealth. These are the professionals: doctors, lawyers, skilled tech jobs.
The only viable role for the remaining 90%, give or take, is service as a flexible labor market.
People have been doing fine under these conditions for centuries, but the American middle class is at a disadvantage, now, because they've come to expect (feel entitled to) a pampered yet unsustainable middle class existence. The transition to sustainability is going to be difficult for people who have come to expect middle class comfort.
So: Let's reorder the economy on a sound basis and take this chance to finally kill off the UAW, and with it the old liberal notion of a broad middle class.
This first step will lead to additional course corrections: Once the middle class shrinks down to sustainable levels, ignoring the internal contradictions of Social Security financing will become impossible. Within a few years, the entire system of federal entitlements will implode, liberating our economy once and for all from the restraints placed on it by 80 years of corrupt Dem leadership.
Yup. The end of the line for the big three. Yet Kos misses the point.
It won't be the end of the "American" auto industry. Just the end of three crappy, bloated companies that pay unionized workers too much money to make inferior vehicles that not enough consumers want to buy.
Once the Big Three are bankrupt and gone, the marketplace will have a vacuum. There will be a "pro-American" market out there for American-designed, American-built, American-brand cars. Someone will fill the void with a new company. And they will have the opportunity to do so with the benefit of lessons learned from the missteps of Ford, Chrysler and GM. THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is Change You Can Believe In.
Taxpayer bailouts, on the other hand, hardly represent Change.
To people who still think unions are a good idea: this is the pot of chickens coming home to roost.
The Mustang is still a great car!
The Big 3 is doomed. It is a rotting corpse. Let it die and replace it with foreign manufacturers on American soil.
Even if the stupid union contracts (including the ones paying people not to work) are torn up, the ultra-generous pension and healthcare plans cannot be supported. There is no way UAW or Congress agrees to cut those. Therefore, thee is no way those get cut. Therefore, they remain a millstone around the Big 3's neck.
The Big 3 is a rotting corpse, and Congress just wants to prop it up, maybe inject it with a little juice so it can shamble around aimlessly like some kind of zombie for a few years until it needs another hit of zombie juice (taxpayer dollars).
We can only hope that this infection does not spread to other industries. That's the left-wing goal--to turn us into a socialist country by destroying our economy and folding the broken pieces into our federal government. That's why lefties always oppose sound economic policy and always support hoaxes like "Global Warming." They know that to achieve their goals, they must bring America to its knees.
Of course, in any good zombie movie, you know the ending in advance: we're all f#cked. This is the same way.
Think about what a great country this is where one can go from potential heiress to the Pierce-Arrow dynasty to starving art school student to tenured law professor at a top tier law school to world-renowned Blog Goddess zipping around in a precision European sports car jobby all in the course of one short lifetime!
My country tis of thee!
I think Congress should bring back the Studebaker, too, just for good measure.
"potential heiress to the Pierce-Arrow dynasty"
More like potential heiress to a mechanic shop.
And Meade has the bio and motion picture rights? You lucky bastard!
Pretend it's Cuba.
They have kept American cars from the 1950's and earlier going for half a century.
After you are done pretending, start dealing with the 21st century, where America is no longer ascendant in the auto industry.
It's called Change. Isn't that what the Kos crowd has been waiting for
"And Meade has the bio and motion picture rights? You lucky bastard!"
You may say I'm a dreamer... a lucky bastard dreamer.
I like to think of myself as an average ordinary blue collar premier myth maker babe magnet.
So we've come to the point where someone who thinks a business should stand or fall on its own merits, rather than being nationalized in part or whole, is an "ultra-conservative". Not just conservative, an ultra conservative.
I guess now if you believe in private property and free markets at all, that alone makes you somewhat suspect. I guess in the Obama Nation, the free market is just so yesterday.
It's been at least 5 years since the last Trans Am was made.
Not sure what the connection is between the GOP and the collapsing American auto industry. Ford, GM, and Chrysler have been dying of the same self-imposed illness for 20 years, through both Republican and Democratic administrations. Blaming their plight on anyone but themselves misses the real issue at hand. Forgive us for being skittish about dumping billions more in tax dollars to keep their lights on for another six months when these companies haven't even proven they can run themselves properly.
That Pierce-Arrow background seems familiar.
My grandfather was a Packard mechanic, who went on to work for himself.
But, then the legacies diverge; I bought myself a Packard because I was inspired by pictures of my grandfather next to these big, beautiful cars from the past.
My grandfather only had joyful memories of his Packard days--contagious memories for me.
P.S.
Thanks for losing the typo, I noticed it, but didn't feel like deleting and correcting the comment.
I love the wishful thinking in "let the Big 3 die, we'll all Buy Toyota".
First, why would Toyota build more plants in the USA if the big 3 are gone? They build them now because of the explicit and implicit threat of tariffs and quotas. A threat which will go away, when the big 3 go.
Second, once gone the Auto industry will never come back. Goodbye, millions of jobs. Who's going to hire them? Are to they all to be government employees?
Third, we are now running $500 billion dollar trade deficits with the rest of the world. What are we going to give the Japanese in return for all these shiny new Toyota's? US assets? More worthless dollars?
The same people who engineered the subprime fiasco, engineered the $700 wall street bailout fiasco, are now saying we need the big 3 to die. Hmmmm.....
The big three should leave the US, find low tax countries with workers who want to work, build cars to sell to the world, be successful.
Where to begin with RC's know-nothing comment. Treatises could be written.
They build them now because of the explicit and implicit threat of tariffs and quotas.
No. They don't. Foreign manufacturers build plants here now because they are profitable. That's why businesses are in business. To make money. Note where the plants are built. Are they built in Michigan, where unions have a stranglehold on the economy? Or are they built in the South, where labor is far cheaper?
we are now running $500 billion dollar trade deficits with the rest of the world
Why is that, RC? Why has the United States run trade deficits for decades? Is it some conspiracy? No. It's because our currency is strong and our labor is expensive. If your goal is truly to get rid of the trade deficit, the thing to do is to lower labor costs substantially and decrease the cost of our money.
I don't understand what the problem is with bankruptcy. These are failed businesses. They can't pay their bills. They need to completely change the way they do business. Bankruptcy allows that.
Finally, I read something the other day that was intriguing. The bailout, rightly, has involved banks. If you want money, go to a bank. That's where all the money from the government has gone.
Republicans did not destroy the American automobile industry, and the implication that they did is fatuous. It was destroyed by the UAW and management both assuming that they could be as inefficient as they wished as long as all American manufacturers were more or less equally burdened. It didn't work out. Life's a bitch. It only gets worse for America if we force our economy to drag along a zombie automobile industry. Both UAW and management made the bed. They should now be forced to lie in it.
I agree RcOcean. It is time to look out for our nation's self-interests.
Why doesn't Congress ever discuss the financial incentives the Japaneses auto companies get from their govt? Oh sure Congress delves into the national healthcare in Japan because Dems want that here too. But I an sure the Japanese govt gives plenty of other yen! Plus the Janps and Asians buy very few of our cars? Why is that?
Let's have an economy that looks like Japan's. So free and growing so much.
While we're at it, let's get a criminal justice system like Japan's, too. Rights, shmights.
I feel compelled to reiterate something: we will never, ever, ever erase the American trade deficit or even begin to start competing with foreign manufacturers in any industry where wages are high. It's basically a mathematical impossibility.
How can people not understand this? You can't expect to sell more of your stuff when it is far more expensive than other stuff that is the same.
If you want high wages, you cannot also have a trade surplus. To believe otherwise makes you a moron.
I must assume that all the military's trucks/ airplanes/ and other assembly line produced stuff will always be available as imports from the friends we have e all over the world. But what if they cause Co2 and have been banned by the UN in the future?
Traditional -- Certainly, because no American entrepreneur would fill that niche. Never. If these three companies go bankrupt, another American vehicle will never be made. Bankruptcy is death, and birth is not allowed.
"My grandfather only had joyful memories of his Packard days--contagious memories for me."
If you mean to imply that my grandfather was bitter and groused about his misfortune, you are wrong. I never heard him speak about it at all. I have had to imagine the disappointments he had. He never talked about anything like that.
Precisely how does our Congress think we could handle another WWII without an auto industry to make the trucks, the tanks and the parts for repair?
How does our Congress plan to handle the 1 MILLION pensioners from GM who suddenly don't have a pension? That's one in 300 Americans.
How does our Congress plan on handling Michigan loosing another 800,000 jobs like we lost in the past 8 years.. but this time all at once?
What the hell are they thinking? They've given buttloads of cash without hesitation to the financial firms who have used it for bonuses and to buy other foreign companies but STILL AREN'T LENDING money to people to buy cars!
Seven:
Is Japan's standard of living significantly lower than ours? If not, how do they produce cars at a lower cost? After we factor in the elimination of the US disadvantage for pensions / benefits.
Regarding future pension promises that are not funded, Congress is to blame.
Congress has sat idly by for years while some big businesses and many many state and local govts devised overly generous pensions but did not fund them.
That was also a violation of the law of mathematics Seven Machos mentioned.
Why is it always assumed that the only alternatives are to bail out Detroit as is, or watch GM, Ford and Chrysler disappear without a trace?
When United Airines went bankrupt did all its airplanes immediately vanish?
These companies have contractual obligations with their labor force and dealer networks that are unsustainable. If they are to regain profitability, they need to renegotiate these deals under Chapter 11 protection. Let the bankruptcy laws work as they were intended - there is no pain-free way for the government to "save" Detroit.
Seven,
Ignoring the fact that a lot of folks won't buy a car from a company in bankruptcy, and ignoring the fact that bankruptcies drag on for a long time; are you suggesting that Chapter 11 (w/o the gov financing anyway) will not lead to Chapter 7 in our current situation? Then, add in the problem of selling cars while a long (likely Chapter 7) bankruptcy works through the courts.
If you don't care about the loss of the domestic design and development control in autos, what do you think will replace this work and innovation? Are you a promoter of the race to the bottom philosophy?
Austerity didn't work for Hoover, and it didn't work for FDR. And, we are blessed that the US is the biggest of the too-big-to-fail, hence the big money of the world is still forced to dump their cash into Treasuries. Treasuries provide a return, even if it's almost zero on the shorter stuff--that's still better than losing money. Treasuries are the way the world's big money gets stuffed under the proverbial mattress.
Let's quasi-arbitrage this cheap money to find a floor so that things can get moving in the right direction. Hopefully, the Fed will work to lock in the maximum amount of cheap money for the longest terms possible.
P.S.
Maybe the foriegn companies were worried about quotas, like we had while Reagan was president, so they started assembling here.
P.P.S.
We're like a developing country to the foriegn companies who assemble cars in the States. The home countries keep a lot of the high powered technology, innovation, and development: we do the grunt work.
They are getting better than us at the making advancements. That seems like it could be a long term problem. At least we're still blessed with a lot of domestic material resources, but we should probably look at our human capital relative to other developed countries. Maybe our material resources have made us overconfident; how much of our growth is the result of our commodity wealth versus our brilliance. Would Japan be so advanced if they had the crutch of a lot of domestic commodity resources?
P.P.P.S
Folks may want to read recent Sully posts (including dissents) about health care and pensions.
No PT Cruiser or Jeep Cherokee? Where do I sign up?
Seriously, those are two utter piles of shit. Until recently so was the Mustang; now it's just a half pile of shit. It may look nice, but the suspension is outdated crap.
That aside, Ford isn't going under. They are actually getting their house in order. The only reason they showed up in DC is they heard free money was being handed out. Truth is, though Ford will never admit it, they will benefit if GM or Chrysler go under. Not only will it reduce the [over] supply of cars, it will give them incredible control at the bargaining table--in fact, they may just tell the Union to go to hell and hire scabs, which will be easy as pie.
Chrysler is the worse of the three and should have already gone under. The only thing decent they make is the Viper (which loses money) and the Dodge Ram Pickup (especially with the Cumins diesel, which Ford would love to get their hands on since their diesel engine isn't very good.)
Somewhat recently I worked on a project that forced me to learn about GMs part distribution system. It's dreadfully "designed" and horribly inefficient. (By contrast, Ford's part distribution system is a dream.)
People won't buy a car from a company that is in bankruptcy? Really? Did they not fly American while it was in bankruptcy? That seems a hell of a lot more perilous.
It's one thing to buy a car, quite another to put your life in the hands of a pilot.
This argument is absurd and spurious. Next, please. And, really. Try harder.
Japan produces lower-cost cars because it has lower costs.
traditionalguy at 2:41, a lot of the military's vehicles come from AM General, which is not one of the Big 3, and not, to my knowledge anyway, involved in the bailout negotiations. They build the H2 Hummers for GM and would be hurt if they lost that marketing channel, but would they be hurt enough to have to shut down production of military vehicles? I don't know enough to say, but I doubt it.
Bradleys are built by BAE Land and Armaments, an international company with its US HQ in Minneapolis.
It's not WW II any more, when the auto companies turned the assembly lines over to military production.
Airplanes, now, that might be another matter. Though the contract for tankers has not yet been given to Airbus; Boeing may yet prevail.
The auto companies are not going bankrupt - Congress will not allow it, except under some kind of hybrid bailout/bankruptcy that preserves union jobs and wages. Isn't it strange the auto companies have been bargaining as if they're in a position of strength? It's because they're as strong politically as they are weak financially.
The biggest benefit to bankruptcy from the auto companies' perspective is it allows them to renegotiate union contracts. There's no way the Democrats are going to cross the UAW like that, even if it means a permanent IV of taxpayer money into the sector.
The only real question is whether the Democrats bring enough Republicans along to make it a "bi-partisan" bailout.
My daughter tells me that the new ones are worthless and ugly.
I don't think she'd drive a new Mustang if it arrived at Christmas with a big bow on the hood.
She wants an 80-something Camaro.
Weird kid.
The Corvette is an amazing car; it's highest performance models are in many ways superior to cars manufactured by Porsche, Ferrari, Maserati and others.
I look forward to the day when I can buy a new Corvette at a price that reflects a restructured GM's labor cost.
That being said, I miss and still yearn for the Nash Metropolitan. Gone, but never forgotten.
The new Republican Slogans for 2010:
"$700 billion for Wall Street but not one Dime for Detroit"
Or:
"American Workers Drop Dead - you make too much."
Should be a winner.
Seven,
That you are someone who would make a major durable good purchase of a car from a company that is broke, with an uncertain resolution (Chap 11 or 7, and gov $ or no gov $, and unknown macroeconomic expectations), says a lot about you.
If there were more folks like you it wouldn't matter what kinds of uncompetitive cars were produced domestically, some sucker would buy them anyway.
"all looted by ultra-conservatives eager to punish generations of American workers for the sin of not voting for the GOP in acceptable numbers"
Actually the problem was that Democrats forced the US auto companies auto companies to build small cars that no one wanted to buy at a price that would allow the companies to make a profit. (Foreign companies could make those cars profitable for reasons that had a lot to do with more amenable labor unions.) But, all of the great cars will not disappear. In fact they will be on the roads for decades to come as people refuse to buy the cars Congress is going to design for Detroit to produce in return for subsidizing them.
Synova,
Does she need a theme song ?
"American Workers Drop Dead - you make too much."
Should be a winner.
Of course it's not a *winner*.
It's just true. And truth isn't very popular.
It's much more popular to tell people that corporations are evil and have unlimited funds and there are no down-sides to making them pay you more.
Granted, no one is saying that the auto-makers are victims. They dug their own hole.
The question is, should taxpayers bail out an industry that has been bailed out before?
The rant Ann quotes is pretty typical, it seems, of an argument that simply does not admit the existence of economic reality. No, it's just mean and vindictive motivations... the only reason that "conservatives" do anything. Hate.
rcocean said...
The new Republican Slogans for 2010:
"$700 billion for Wall Street but not one Dime for Detroit"
You seem to have forgotten that most Republicans did not vote for the Wall Street bailout. You also should note that most of the money donated from Wall Street went to Democrats. Also consider how many from the Clinton Administration were on Wall Street making millions per year. Think of Raines, Gorelick, and most of all Robert Rubin. How much of the $700 billion will go to George Soros, not a friend of Republicans? But, I think you have nailed another Democratic Party big lie.
I am pro-bailout. Lending is the basis of our free economy. Without banking, everything else falls apart quickly. See, for example, the Great Depression, when for years Roosevelt and Hoover kept money tight, further constricting a constricted economy.
I am convinced that people on the fringe left and fringe right simply do not understand economics. How else could you possibly believe that the way to save a struggling business is to keep it exactly in a position where it is losing money? If the unions and management wanted to solve their problems, they could do so, easily. They don't, though, so to hell with them. Bankruptcy law is there for a reason.
Finally, what's so special about the auto companies? Nothing. Not one thing. What about General Growth. They own malls. Mall are vital for shopping. What about Fred's Bakery and Big Schlong's Porno Emporium? Why not those businesses?
"What about Fred's Bakery and Big Schlong's Porno Emporium? Why not those businesses? "
Donuts and porn - there will always be demand.
Talk about too big to fail-- Fred's and Big Schlong's going out of business would truly be Black Swan events.
I'm finally reading Amity Shlaes' book on the Great Depression, "The Forgotten Man." Two of her complaints with FDR and the New Dealers were their insistence on making business the scapegoat, and the effect of his "bold, persistent experimentation," both of which frightened investors into keeping their money on the sidelines due to the persistent uncertainty.
Seems like the opposite is taking place now. We have people like this Kos diarist, a leftist, who gets teary-eyed thinking about GM, Ford and Chrysler and can't imagine life without them. It's Feel-o-nomics.
I suppose Feel-o-nomics creates another kind of uncertainty. Companies could make the tough choices to survive in this economy. Or they could create a wave of sentimental nostalgia and hope they can use that to get a bailout.
Which other businesses would the left give a sentimental bailout? Here are some "deserving" candidates:
Apple
Starbucks
The Simpsons
The New Yorker
Patagonia
The Boston Red Sox
Burt's Bees
CBS
Wham-O (makers of Frisbee and the Hula Hoop)
American Spirit Cigarettes
Nike
I have always thought that John Stodder was one of the most sensible and intelligent posters on the Althouse blog. But to suggest that the Boston Red Sox deserve a bailout can only mean one thing.
You sir are a communist.
Whole Foods
Google
Ben and Jerry's
MSNBC
Harper Collins
The New York Times
Can't let any of these irreplaceable companies fail.
But to suggest that the Boston Red Sox deserve a bailout can only mean one thing.
You sir are a communist.
John Cusack and Ben Affleck love them and would be very upset if anything ever happened to them. I realize they're profitable now, but you can never be too sure. They deserve at least $2 billion.
Chip Ahoy said... basic analysis is correct, save the motive was not to screw the middle class, but enrich the wealthy further. The mechanism was the informal Bretton Woods II, where American Elites agreed to let cheap Asian labor wipe out manufacturing and depress wages in services and thus give themselves 10 digit GNP Growth. In return they would expect to honor the dollar's dominance and give America's Elites, particularly in the financial and real estate sectors, a cut of the action on the recycled Dollar.
It was a brainchild of ultraconservatives in the Reagan Administration. America would then be the "knowledge economy" where we would have all the IT workers and the experts the Asians needed to make their new ex-American industries prosper. And they thought we would dominate new technology, like cell phones, fiber optics, plasma screen TVs.
And all the Asian dollars ploughed back in could go into Gov't, which would allow supply side conservatives to massively grow the Government under Reagan AND cut taxes.
It worked, just like someone quitting his job to be a poker player and using his inheritance and home equity to get a big line of credit. Meaning - it worked for a while. The middle class was told, despite their huge unease about factory after factory closing, that "Exciting" new jobs were coming. The losses had little to do with the manufacturing or services jobs being union or not. The only criteria was if Japan, then later China, Pakistan, Indonesia, and India could do it cheaper than the American.
The trade deficit exploded. More unease. The masses were told "real estate!" was the answer - nothing need be made in America anymore but houses and "the small niche military market that needs domestic product."
Now the crap has hit the fan.
I don't care if John Cusack, Joan Cusack or your ball sack loves them, there is one thing that is perfectly clear:
BOSTON SUCKS!!!!!!!!!
And that dweeb Ben Afleck dumped a hot chica with a sweet ass for a skinny buck tooth sckank so what the hell does he know about the price of beans.
What is Burt's Bees?
The 140000 UAW members don't make all that much more than the non-unionized workers at the foreign transplant factories. The bulk of the almost $30/hr difference is benefits, which I believe includes retiree benefits. If all the UAW members work a 2000 hour year, the aggregate extra cost to Detroit is around $8 billion per year. GM should have gone Ch11 a few quarters ago when they became technically insolvent but still had the cash reserves to get through it. Ford will probably be OK and its interesting that of the Detroit 3, they are the ones with a product guy in the lead, even though his signature product is the Boeing 777. Chrysler is private and not too big to fail. Their IP of any value - mostly Jeep - will be sold and soldier on.
And the US will still not get a clue that we need to make things and incent and respect who can and do.
Ben and Jerry's?
Maybe not.
This place in Seattle had it's Ben and Jerry's replaced with Red Mango.
At least they still have two standalone Starbucks, plus one in the QFC, and another one in the Barnes and Noble--I did mention this is in Seattle.
What is Burt's Bees?
"Earth friendly Natural Personal Care for the Greater Good."
"At Burt’s Bees, our goal is to help create a world where people have the information and tools they need to make the highest ethical choices and do the best for themselves, their families and the environment."
Their signature product seems to be some kind of organic lip balm, but they also make shampoo, skin creme, cologne, etc. The lip balm works pretty good.
Interesting that liberals comprise most of Red Sox Nation, since the dirty secret is the Sox were the last team to be integrated -- fully 12 years after Jackie Robinson joined the Dodgers.
Yet my Dodgers seem to have no cachet among the glitterati. Our most famous fan is Alyssa Milano.
Boston teams have always been the most racist teams in every sport. It is just typical of the liberal hypocrisy that they pretend that it isn't so.
This is of course not such a big issue anymore since black athletes won't play baseball anymore.
Oh and Alyssa Milano sucks!!!
But in a good way.
A very very good way.
If Cuba can have the same American cars forever, so should America.
Quick, Congress, put yourself in charge and make this wish come true!
I am feeling the fuzzy, cooling effects of Burt's Bees lip balm as we speak. It's a miracle product, really, particularly in a cold Chicago winter.
U use it all the time. I have friends who are addicted to the stuff.
I use it all the time. Typos can ruin a good joke.
I always get more edumicated here. It pays to ask if you don't know something.
I have a tube of Bert's Bees lip balm. The kids may steal my Chapstick but they never steal my Bert's Bees. My husband asked to use it once and was very sorry. I don't like it either. Bleh... smells like perfume.
Chap Stick is a lot better than it used to be.
Then there is good old Carmex.
Just never put it through the washer and dryer. Trust me. Worse than crayons.
Ford is anti-gay. I hope they go bankrupt.
California, too, Downtown. And virtually every other state, and nation.
The auto industry is 4% of US GDP. Over $500 billion a year.
Sure you can let it go bust, but the cost will be a hell of a lot more than $35 billion.
Yes, I hope California goes bankrupt too. I hope your whole fucking country goes bankrupt.
I'm enjoying your Depression.
Downtown -- What nation with stunning GDP growth do you call your own?
I've said it before - but I really do think that the bankruptcy of the Big 3 would be a great capstone in George W. Bush's legacy.
Please let it happen.
The worse shape the economy is in on January 20th, the more breathing room Obama will get to enact his agenda.
My country enjoyed double digit growth last year.
I'll start calling myself an American again on January 20th.
Sane people don't wish ill on their own country.
If you actually do care about the US economy though, it is important not to let these companies go under.
Nobody's buying cars because people are worried about the economy. They are worried about their jobs and their savings. So they make their existing cars go farther. That causes the economy to slow or shrink. But they can only make their cars go so far. Eventually they buy new ones and that helps the economy grow. Well if these companies aren't here, the US will never experience the rebound will. Japan and Korea will instead.
That might be good for the world's economy, but I'm not sure its good for the US. Those jobs, 11% of the world's manufacturing industry, will be gone forever.
I think they should do some sort of restructuring, maybe allowing one of them to go under and get absorbed by one of the remaining 2.
Here is a tip for you if you lost your job and need to make some money. Bet big on Oklahoma in the BCS championship game vs. Florida.
You can make some money too on Penn State in the Rose Bowl and I bet Texas Tech will win too though I am not sure who Texas Tech will be playing.
AJ Lynch - It's not my country. I've already left. US voters have made it very clear that they don't want gay people living there.
Hmm DTL I must have missed that ballot question....what did it ask something like "Are you in favor of gay people living in the USA?"
Just what we need, to follow the economic prescriptions of a raving lunatic who believes that the world revolves him and his gayness.
Yes Seven - Your economic policies, practiced by George W. Bush - have just done wonders for this economy.
AJ Lynch - when you pass constitutional amendments that say "Gays are now second class citizens" that's exactly the message you are sending to gay people - that they are not welcome in your midst.
Fine. I listened. Now I get to laugh at your Depression. I had a smile on my face when I read Friday's jobs report.
Enjoy your "time abroad," Downtown. As someone who knows quite a bit about consular law, I can assure you that it's tremendously difficult to renounce American citizenship. So, when Obama becomes president, and everything automatically becomes rosy again, we'll welcome you "back" with open arms.
"I'll start calling myself an American again on January 20th."
That's nice. We, however, will continue to call you an insufferable, needy, sociopathic faggot.
I'm not renouncing my citizenship. I still have to pay taxes, and even if I renounced my citizenship - I STILL have to pay taxes for 10 years.
That's why I still vote. But I don't have to live there. And my earnings and income are now helping the economy of another country.
"My country enjoyed double digit growth last year."
What, in the sex tourism industry? They should offer you a medal for, uh, single-handedly causing that windfall.
At least I have a job Palladian. And I'm not fat. And I have friends.
"And my earnings and income are now helping the economy of another country."
How many Thai boys can you buy on 45K a year?
Palladian - Next to gaypatriot - the most self-loathing gay person in America.
"At least I have a job Palladian. And I'm not fat. And I have friends."
How much do you have to pay them? Is it by the hour?
How racist can you be against Asians Palladian?
We already know that you didn't vote for Obama, solely because he's black. Now we realize that you don't like Asians either.
Shocker.
I am betting that Downtown is hunkered down in his efficiency in Chelsea right now, masturbating with seething hatred.
I feel sorry for gay people who are fat. Gay men care a lot about looks.
If I was in Chelsea right now - I'd be out drinking with my friends.
Now I'm heading off to the gym.
Bye.
Bye Seven.
You might want to know that the mask you are showing in your profile is quite popular in gay S&M clubs.
Good day.
Yeah, I'm sure my mask is popular at gay S&M clubs. You'll see guys wearing it all over La Lucha in Mexico City, just for example.
I thought you were leaving. What happened? You can't quit me, I guess.
"Palladian - Next to gaypatriot - the most self-loathing gay person in America."
Haha. I'm not self-loating. I loathe you.
When did you finally come out of the closet? When you were 45? That's funny. See, I've been "out" since I was a teenager in conservative rural Pennsylvania, back when being "out" actually carried some risk. At the same time, you spent those years on your knees in restrooms and alleyways all the while pretending to be straight during the day because you were too much of a pussy to be honest with yourself and the world. And now that everyone responds to gayness with a shrug and a yawn, you're suddenly SUPERFAGGOT! Hurling SUPER POWERED insults with impunity and anonymity at those of us who dare "disagree" with you! Able to repulse and sicken people, straight and gay, with a single blog comment!
You're pathetic, Mary.
"We already know that you didn't vote for Obama, solely because he's black. Now we realize that you don't like Asians either."
I know! I even wore my Klan hood and carried a burning cross to my polling station in a public school in south Brooklyn. And those fucking Asians! Man I hate them! I'm calling my Taiwanese and Japanese friends right now to tell them how much I don't like them!
I don't care. Every American car I've bought, including the Saturn, has been a disappointment.
The trucks were OK, but still not as good.
The sad thing is my Toyota Corolla was made in Georgia.
It's not American workers that are the problem. It's American car companies. If American workers are building Toyotas, they seem to do a better job.
Jeeps have been built by: Bantam. Ford, GM, Willys, AMC, Chrysler, Mercedes (Daimler) and now a hedge fund. I expect that Jeep will end up somewhere, the more important issue for sports car and muscle car people is what will happen to the Connor Ave. Viper plant? I would also expect Corvette and Mustang to survive, with the high-end Corvettes as their American competition and Porsche as their primary European competition Viper does not have an easy road. Viper also doesn't seem a logical fit for any of the world's majors except for Toyota and their Toyota Racing Division, however Toyota has their own problems. I've been musing that maybe Viper could end up being owned by a group of (or individual) wealthy Viper Club members. Viper is no Pierce Arrow, but they are America's most outrageous modern cars.
I wish I were in Chelsea right now.
"I wish I were in Chelsea right now."
London, New York or Clinton?
Pretending she was my intern heh.
So this gay guy walks into a bar full of nine-year-old boys in Thailand. Chelsea Clinton is there. Bartender says, "Hey pal,..."
There's a punchline here. I'm just not able to think of it.
Have to be something like "Hey Pal see anything you like?" then segue to the punchline where the gay guy sees Chelsea and says "what a coincidence Chelsea Clinton is here; it was women like her mother who turned me gay!".
Chelsea stomps out of the bar, and he says, "There goes the neighborhood!"
GM is becoming hysterical about bankruptcy. Yes, sales would decline, but Chapter 11 reorganization will give them flexibility they need to fix many of their problems. They know this and I could understand them being worried, but why do they keep acting like it's the end of the world?
My theory; GM is not only in far worse condition than they are letting on to anyone outside a tight inner circle and has committed criminal fraud hiding that fact. Bankruptcy will expose all the dirty laundry and people will go to jail.
My 88 Dodge Colt is suffering predictable breakdown. Piece of junk. Cars don't last 20 years anymore.
Made by Mitsubishi, which I chose because of their aircraft experience.
And try finding a Zero these days.
AJ Lynch said: Plus the Janps and Asians buy very few of our cars? Why is that?
Duh. The Japanese don't buy American cars because they drive on the left side of the road.
During the post-war occupation and reconstruction it was decided by GHQ to retain Japan's left-driving to discourage the American Auto industry from flooding Japan with American cars.
Ironic, eh?
In the early postwar years, with passenger car production restricted by GHQ, motorcycles and three-wheelers played an enormous part in meeting the demand for motorized vehicles in Japan. In fact the Bank Of Japan didn't think an auto industry was necessary which gave rise to MITI and keiretsu.
GHQ also decreed that Allied vehicles would be rebuilt and repaired by Japanese firms to bootstrap the industry, who carefully studied our work methods and repair techniques, adapting and refining them.
Toyota developed JIT not from studying our auto industry but Piggly Wiggly, another irony.
Every competitive advantage the Japanese learned; we taught them. You might want to Google W.F. Taylor, Frank Gilbreth, and especially W. Edwards Deming.
Stupidly, we did not apply the knowledge to our own industry. The Big 3 crash & burn is way over due and as others have commented they did it to themselves.
BTW-Denso Corp is GM's top supplier, don't fret, the Japanese will take a hit as well.
American vehicles needed to have been built better. I think that is the core of the problem. In 1984 I bought a Chevy truck, no frills, three speed on the column, probably the last one made. No air conditioning. Within 2 years the paint started to fall off. I mean big pieces after a rain. I painted it last summer, and there was no paint on the cab and hood. Some paint left on the bottom parts. I've had to replace the generator, starter and brakes, which was no big deal, and did the work myself. It's been reliable for 148,000 miles. Except for the paint, which limited the resale value, almost immediately.
Next up, I bought a 1998 Chev S-10, and had to replace the clutch after 80,000 miles, again, at 120,000 miles plus some transmission parts. Sometimes you could get it into 4 wheel drive, sometimes you couldn't get it out. Everything broke on the car, and by 1997, it was a piece of rust.
Because I had a 55 mile drive to work, and was closing in on retirement, I spent $8500 on a GEO Metro. Made in Canada it has been a blessing, and is still going strong at 168,000 miles. I have to replace the exhaust system about every 4 years, but do the work myself, so it's relatively inexpensive.
I remember when I got out of the Army in 1968, and my father bought a brand new Dodge truck. The worse piece of crap made. Needed a new engine after only 20,000 miles, and by 60,000 miles was a rusted piece of junk.
That's why Detroit is having problems.
Dang! Make that "I bought a 1989 Chev S-10"
That's why Detroit is having problems.
Quite a while back I heard Phil Condidt (of Boeing) tell a story about transmissions. Apparently the Ford Ranger and Mazda pickup used the same transmissions. Both companies had the exact same specs, but the Ford built transmissions had reliability problems. The engineers tore apart the two transmissions but their precise measuring tools couldn't detect any difference.
After further study they found that the Japanese transmissions were more perfect than the measuring tools could distinguish. This extreme precession was necessary for that particular transmission design.
P.S.
He also said that China told Boeing they would not buy planes unless a lot of the construction took place in China. We would never want to put pressure on foriegn companies who want access to our markets, that's not free trade.
1jpb: Exactly. This Deming page will further illustrate the point. Ford did not seek Deming's advice until 1981, the Japanese had a thirty year head start at that point.
Our auto industry is not competitive because we have not made it so, all of us are responsible, the customer who buys iconic marketing and accepts lesser quality as long as it is "cool".
Management, shareholders, unions and politicans are mutually culpable. They began to see the auto industry as a means to produce wealth and votes; the Milo Minderbinder approach.
When better quality, fuel efficient and/or hotter iconic alternatives were offered the public switched in staggering numbers. Still the Detroit dinosaur lumbered on, adding more overhead baggage and producing cars years behind the imports; unaware or incapable of accepting that the import asteroid was about to render them extinct.
Detroit had a serious heads up in the 70's. Ford responded with the more fuel efficient Taurus-Sable cars of the mid and late 80's. GM and Chrysler plodded on through the morass of too many badges, low quality and Congress grandstanding with unrealistic federal regulation time frames; all larded with executive merit bonuses, dividends and labor benefit packages until they finally reached the edge of the insolvency tar pits.
I have extended family members who will be negatively impacted if GM is forced into bankruptcy, but the cost per unit of management and labor must be reduced to make the industry competitive. They must then address the issue of quality control, CAFE goals and most importantly plant realignment and retooling, the mother of all of money-sucking tar pits on Detroit's horizon. Retooling alone will take 4-5 years. Our pockets are not that deep, soon the taxpayer, if not already, will be tapped out. Then what? Bankruptcy.
Do it now, accept the short term pain, before it becomes a Sisyphean task.
People won't buy a car from a company that is in bankruptcy? Really? Did they not fly American while it was in bankruptcy? That seems a hell of a lot more perilous.
Not really. Once you've made your flight, you've received everything American owes you. If you buy a car from a company in bankruptcy, how can you guarantee a supply of spare parts and service? What about warranties? Ask Peugeot, Fiat, and Alfa Romeo owners what it was like when they abandoned the US market.
To those saying US cars are crap, have you been to an auto show this year? The latest batch of new GM cars, like the Pontiac G8 and Cadillac CTS, are light years ahead of GM's past efforts. Interior quality and design is top notch, GM's powertrains are a good as ever (never slam GM's engineers), and ride & handling is as good as anything out there. I currently own a Lexus, but I'm seriously considering a CTS, it's that good.
"Rice Burning"? Very intelligent journalism there. How ignorant! The American auto companies have had plenty of time to correct their ways, but instead thought it best to rest on their pathetic American laurels. "We're Americans. We practically invented the car so we don't need to be taking advice from any other country's business practices." Typical American mentality. And now look where its gotten you. It's an eat or be eaten world and the American automakers have just been served up with a side of steaming rice. |
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From Copenhagen University Hospital Gentofte, Hellerup, Denmark, and Copenhagen University Hospital Glostrup, National Institute of Public Health, University of Southern Denmark, and Copenhagen University Hospital Rigshospitalet, Copenhagen, Denmark.
Grant Support: By the Danish Medical Research Council (grant 271-06-0572) and the Danish Heart Foundation (grant 10-04-R78-A2865-22586).
Potential Conflicts of Interest: Disclosures can be viewed at.
Reproducible Research Statement:Study protocol and statistical code: Available from Dr. Charlot (e-mail, [email protected]). Data set: Not available.
Requests for Single Reprints: Mette Charlot, MD, Department of Cardiology, Copenhagen University Hospital Gentofte, PA Research, Post 67, Niels Andersens Vej 65, 2900 Hellerup, Denmark; e-mail, [email protected].
Current Author Addresses: Drs. Charlot, Ahlehoff, Norgaard, Jørgensen, Sørensen, Hansen, Madsen, Torp-Pedersen, and Gislason: Department of Cardiology, Copenhagen University Hospital Gentofte, PA Research, Post 67, Niels Andersens Vej 65, 2900 Hellerup, Denmark.
Dr. Abildstrøm: Department of Cardiology, Copenhagen University Hospital Bispebjerg, Bispebjerg Bakke 23, 2400 København NV, Denmark.
Dr. Køber: The Heart Centre, Copenhagen University Hospital Rigshospitalet, Blegdamsvej 9, 2100 Copenhagen, Denmark.
Author Contributions: Conception and design: M. Charlot, C. Torp-Pedersen, G. Gislason.
Analysis and interpretation of the data: M. Charlot, O. Ahlehoff, M.L. Norgaard, C.H. Jørgensen, P.R. Hansen, L. Køber, C. Torp-Pedersen, G. Gislason.
Drafting of the article: M. Charlot, P.R. Hansen, C. Torp-Pedersen, G. Gislason.
Critical revision of the article for important intellectual content: M. Charlot, O. Ahlehoff, M.L. Norgaard, C.H. Jørgensen, R. Sørensen, S.Z. Abildstrøm, P.R. Hansen, J.K. Madsen, L. Køber, C. Torp-Pedersen, G. Gislason.
Final approval of the article: M. Charlot, O. Ahlehoff, M.L. Norgaard, R. Sørensen, S.Z. Abildstrøm, P.R. Hansen, J.K. Madsen, L. Køber, C. Torp-Pedersen, G. Gislason.
Statistical expertise: M. Charlot, S.Z. Abildstrøm, L. Køber, C. Torp-Pedersen, G. Gislason.
Obtaining of funding: M. Charlot, J.K. Madsen, C. Torp-Pedersen.
Administrative, technical, or logistic support: M. Charlot, O. Ahlehoff, J.K. Madsen, C. Torp-Pedersen, G. Gislason.
Collection and assembly of data: M. Charlot, S.Z. Abildstrøm, C. Torp-Pedersen, G. Gislason.
This article has been corrected. For original version, click "Original Version (PDF)" in column 2..
Primary Funding Source:.
—The Editors
Clopidogrel is a platelet inhibitor that reduces the risk for new ischemic cardiovascular events, in combination with aspirin, in patients treated either medically or with percutaneous coronary intervention (PCI) after myocardial infarction (1 - 3). Proton-pump inhibitors (PPIs) are often given in combination with clopidogrel and aspirin to reduce the risk for upper gastrointestinal bleeding. Clopidogrel is a prodrug that is metabolized to an active metabolite primarily by the hepatic P-450 enzyme 2C19 (4). Because PPIs are metabolized by the same hepatic isoenzyme (5), concern has been raised that PPIs might inhibit the conversion of clopidogrel to its active metabolite and thereby diminish its clinical benefit.
Recent studies show that PPIs reduce the ex vivo inhibition of platelet aggregation achieved during treatment with clopidogrel (6 - 8). Clinical studies involving selected populations (9 - 13) show conflicting results regarding risk for adverse cardiovascular events associated with the dual use of clopidogrel and PPIs. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (14 - 15) and the European Medicines Agency (16) have recently discouraged the combined use of these agents unless strongly indicated, while emphasizing the need for further studies. We sought to examine the risk for adverse cardiovascular outcomes related to concomitant use of PPIs and clopidogrel compared with that of PPIs alone in a large, unselected cohort of patients hospitalized with first-time myocardial infarction.
In Denmark, every resident is provided with a permanent and unique civil registration number that enables individual-level linkage between different registries. Our nationwide cohort study linked Danish national registry data relevant to hospitalizations, pharmacy prescription claims, and deaths for 4.65 million people.
For all hospital admissions in Denmark, the Danish National Patient Registry registers a primary diagnosis and, if appropriate, 1 or more secondary diagnoses, as defined by the International Classification of Diseases. The Danish Registry of Medicinal Product Statistics (a national prescription registry) records every prescription dispensed from pharmacies in Denmark, and each drug is classified according to the International Anatomical Therapeutical Chemical system. Information on vital status and causes of death were obtained, respectively, from the Danish Civil Registry and the National Causes of Death Registry.
The Danish Data Protection Agency approved the study, and the data made available to us were such that individuals could not be identified. Retrospective registry studies do not require ethical approval in Denmark. The authors had full access to the data and take full responsibility for its integrity.
From the National Patient Registry, we identified all consecutive patients older than 30 years who were hospitalized with acute myocardial infarction between 2000 and 2006 in Denmark. To ensure the homogeneity of our population, patients with previous myocardial infarction and patients with partially missing data were excluded. We depended on patients filling prescriptions to identify users. Our primary analysis included patients who survived at least 30 days because we reasoned that a 30-day period would facilitate correct classification of drug use; most patients who filled their prescriptions did so within 30 days (Appendix Figure 1). We also examined the sensitivity of the results to the 30-day cutoff by examining alternative cohorts that included patients who survived 7, 14, and 21 days after myocardial infarction. Patients who emigrated were censored at the time of emigration.
Using the national prescription registry, we identified all prescriptions of drugs claimed up to 90 days after discharge (Table 1), as well as all prescriptions for PPIs and H2-antagonists claimed within 1 year after discharge. Information on medication exposure for each day of follow-up was also obtained, including dispensing date, type, quantity, dose of drug, and days of drug supply. No data on patient-reported adherence were available. We defined current use as the period from the prescription filling date to the calculated end of the period drug supply. Of note, the national prescription registry has demonstrated accuracy (17), and the use of clopidogrel is reasonably stable over time in this cohort, with a 1-year persistency of 89% after 2004 (18).
The primary outcome was a composite of rehospitalization for myocardial infarction or stroke or cardiovascular death. Secondary outcomes included all-cause death, cardiovascular death, and rehospitalization for myocardial infarction, stroke, or gastrointestinal bleeding. Follow-up was up to 1 year after discharge. The diagnoses of acute myocardial infarction and stroke have been validated in the Danish National Patient Registry (19 - 20).
Comorbid conditions were established on the basis of diagnoses noted at the time of discharge from the index myocardial infarction, as specified in the Ontario acute myocardial infarction mortality prediction rule (21). The comorbidity index was further enhanced by adding diagnoses from the year before the event, as was done by Rasmussen and colleagues (22).
Concomitant use of loop diuretics or diabetes medication was a proxy for heart failure or diabetes, respectively, to define high-risk subgroups of patients, as was done by Gislason and colleagues (23).
We used 2 statistical methods to estimate the risk associated with PPI treatment with or without concomitant treatment with clopidogrel.
First, we used Cox proportional hazards models to derive hazard ratios (HRs) and 95% CIs. These models were adjusted for the variables shown in Table 1, including age, sex, PCI, income, concomitant medical treatment, and comorbid conditions. Exposure to PPIs was included as a time-dependent covariate.
Second, we performed a propensity score–matched analysis, in which we quantified a propensity score for the likelihood of receiving a PPI in the first year after discharge by using multivariate logistic regression analysis, conditional on the baseline covariates specified in Table 1. Using the Greedy matching macro (; accessed on 27 July 2010), we matched each case patient to a control participant on the basis of propensity score. Use of PPIs was included as a time-dependent covariate, and propensity score–matched Kaplan–Meier estimates were generated to show event rates and time-to-event curves.
To assess the robustness of our results, we performed a series of additional analyses, including an analysis that evaluated how large the effect of an unmeasured confounder would need to be to explain the results, subgroup analyses of different types of PPIs, and a dose-dependent analysis (24). We also assessed the variation of both PPI use and outcome between hospitals and performed a stratified analysis according to PCI and aspirin use. All statistical calculations were performed with SAS, version 9.2 (SAS Institute, Cary, North Carolina).
Our study was funded by the Danish Medical Research Council and the Danish Heart Foundation. The study sponsors had no influence on the study design, data collection, analysis, data interpretation, or decision to submit the manuscript for publication.
A total of 71 987 patients were admitted with myocardial infarction from 2000 to 2006 (Figure 1). Of these, we excluded 1889 patients with previous myocardial infarction, 13 324 patients who died during hospitalization or within 30 days of discharge, and 368 patients with partially missing data. Of the 56 406 patients included in the study, 24 704 (43.8%) claimed a prescription for clopidogrel within 30 days of discharge (Appendix Figure 1). Of these, 6753 patients (27.3%) claimed at least 1 prescription for PPIs within 1 year of discharge. The use of PPIs was equal in the 2 cohorts and independent of clopidogrel use (Appendix Table 1).
MI = myocardial infarction; PPI = proton-pump inhibitor.
Table 1 shows baseline characteristics of the study sample at the time of inclusion. Patients who received clopidogrel were younger, were more often male, received less concomitant medical treatment, had fewer comorbid conditions, and more often had PCI than patients who did not receive clopidogrel. Patients who received PPIs were older, were more often female, received more concomitant medical treatment, and had more comorbid conditions than those who did not receive PPIs.
In the first year after inclusion, 9137 (16.2%) cardiovascular deaths and rehospitalizations for myocardial infarction or strokes were registered (Appendix Table 2). Clopidogrel was associated with lower event rates, and PPIs were associated with higher event rates. The event rates were highest among patients who received a PPI but not clopidogrel (26.3%).
The time-dependent Cox proportional hazards regression analysis (Table 2), based on patients who filled prescriptions for clopidogrel within 30 days of discharge, demonstrated an increased risk for the primary end point (cardiovascular death or rehospitalization for myocardial infarction or stroke) among patients who received both clopidogrel and a PPI (HR, 1.29 [95% CI, 1.17 to 1.42]; P < 0.001) compared with those who did not receive a PPI. Among patients who did not receive clopidogrel, PPI therapy was associated with a similar increase in risk (HR, 1.29 [CI, 1.21 to 1.37]; P < 0.001). Results were consistent for the risk for all secondary outcomes (Table 2). The hazard rate ratio of the effect of the interaction between PPI and clopidogrel for the primary outcome analysis was 0.98 (CI, 0.88 to 1.10; P = 0.72).
Using the propensity score generated from logistic regression models conditional on baseline covariates, we matched 6556 patients who received both clopidogrel and a PPI with the same number of patients who received clopidogrel but not a PPI. We also matched 8437 patients who did not receive clopidogrel but did receive a PPI with the same number of patients who received neither clopidogrel nor a PPI. Use of PPIs was included as a time-dependent covariate. The c-statistics were 0.65 and 0.65 for the clopidogrel and nonclopidogrel groups, respectively, which indicates an acceptable discriminative power for the models. Table 1 shows the baseline characteristics of the propensity score–matched populations and P values for the between-group differences (Appendix Tables 3 and 4 and Appendix Figure 2, provide further details). For use of a PPI in combination with clopidogrel, with no PPI therapy as the reference, the HR for cardiovascular death or rehospitalization for myocardial infarction or stroke was 1.35 (CI, 1.22 to 1.50; P < 0.001), whereas the HR for use of a PPI without clopidogrel was 1.43 (CI, 1.34 to 1.53; P < 0.001). Analysis of the risk for the secondary outcomes generated similar results (Table 2). The propensity score–matched Kaplan–Meier analysis (Figure 2) depicts the elevated risk for cardiovascular death or rehospitalization for myocardial infarction or stroke for patients who received PPIs with or without clopidogrel.
PPI = proton-pump inhibitor.
Of the 15 642 patients who claimed at least 1 prescription for PPIs, 4698 (30.0%) claimed prescriptions for pantoprazole, 2798 (17.9%) for lansoprazole, 2717 (17.4%) for omeprazole, 5316 (34.0%) for esomeprazole, and 113 (0.01%) for rabeprazole. Results from the time-dependent, Cox proportional hazards regression analysis and the Kaplan–Meier cumulative hazard estimates demonstrated no difference in risk associated with the type of PPI independent of clopidogrel treatment (Appendix Figures 3 and 4). We did not include rabeprazole data in this analysis because the cohort was too small to generate reliable results.
Time-dependent, propensity score–matched Cox proportional hazards analysis. PPI = proton-pump inhibitor.
* Used as reference.
In the propensity score matching based on baseline covariates that predicted treatment with a PPI, the risk reduction for gastrointestinal bleeding in patients who received clopidogrel and a PPI was 0.82 (CI, 0.63 to 1.07; P = 0.140) compared with patients who did not receive a PPI. Therapy with a PPI had no effect in the group that did not receive clopidogrel (risk reduction, 0.99 [CI, 0.80 to 1.22]; P = 0.89).
We estimated that an unmeasured confounder would have to elevate risk by 2.5 to 3 to fully explain the increased risk for cardiovascular events observed with either PPI or clopidogrel and PPI (Appendix Figure 5). To ensure the validity of using day 30 after discharge as the inclusion day, we examined differences in baseline characteristics at discharge and at day 30. We found that most patients (83.5%) who died in the first 30 days were from the cohort that had not filled prescriptions for clopidogrel or a PPI (Appendix Table 5). Examinations of the study cohort at various assembly time points, including 7 and 21 days after myocardial infarction, revealed no differences in the hazard rate ratios of the effect of the interaction between PPIs and clopidogrel (Table 3).
Size needed to account for the elevation of risk from 1 to 1.29. OREC = association between drug use category and confounder; RRCD = association between confounder and disease outcome.
An analysis subdivided by patients seen before and after 2004 provided no evidence of any differences in the effect of PPIs on outcome (P = 0.14). Interaction analyses between relevant subgroups of patients, PPI therapy, and outcome showed interactions (P = 0.035) for concomitant treatment with a PPI and clopidogrel and PCI, with a statistically significant higher risk for cardiovascular death or rehospitalization for myocardial infarction or stroke in a stratified analysis (HR, 1.40 [CI, 1.19 to 1.64]) than in the patient groups who did not have PCI (HR, 1.21 [CI, 1.07 to 1.38]) (Appendix Figure 6). Stratifying patients by concomitant aspirin treatment showed no effect. Additional sensitivity analyses demonstrated no evidence of any clustering between hospitals and no evidence of any difference between high and low PPI doses (Appendix Figure 7 and Appendix Table.
We found no evidence that concomitant PPI therapy increases risk for adverse cardiovascular events in patients who receive clopidogrel.
We conducted a MEDLINE search to find major studies between 2003 and 2010 that investigated possible interactions between clopidogrel and PPIs. Gilard and colleagues (6 - 7) first drew attention to a possible interaction in a double-blind study that showed a reduced ex vivo antiplatelet effect of clopidogrel when combined with a PPI. Other studies (8,14,20 - 21) have confirmed this finding.
An intense debate is now occurring about whether the diminished ex vivo antiplatelet effect is of clinically significant importance. Several large observational studies (9 - 11,25) found concomitant use of clopidogrel and a PPI to be associated with increased risk for death or rehospitalization for myocardial infarction. However, these studies were not based on populations that represent the average patient who has had a myocardial infarction. For example, the studies from Juurlink and colleagues (9) and Rassen and associates (25) were based on retired patients older than 65 years, and Ho and colleagues (10) presented data from U.S. veterans (98% of whom were men). In contrast, a post hoc analysis of the randomized TRITON-TIMI 38 (Trial to assess Improvement in Therapeutic Outcomes by optimizing platelet Inhibition with prasugrel Thrombolysis In Myocardial Infarction 38) (12) found no increased risk for cardiovascular events with the combined use of PPIs and clopidogrel and no difference in risk between the various types of PPIs. A post hoc analysis of the randomized CREDO (Clopidogrel for the Reduction of Events During Observation) trial (11) also found baseline PPI use to be associated with increased cardiovascular events, regardless of whether clopidogrel was used. These studies were based on selected patients eligible for randomized trials, who were usually younger and less likely to have significant comorbid conditions than many patients who are prescribed both clopidogrel and a PPI. The prospective, randomized COGENT (Clopidogrel and the Optimization of Gastrointestinal Events) study (26), which was stopped before inclusion of patients was complete, evaluated the cardiovascular safety of concomitant treatment with omeprazole and clopidogrel and found no evidence of increased cardiovascular risk. Similar results were recently reported by Ray and colleagues (13). Of note, preliminary results from the COGENT study demonstrated an increased risk for gastrointestinal bleeding in patients who received dual antiplatelet treatment without PPI therapy. This increased bleeding risk was confirmed by Yasuda and colleagues (27), which emphasizes the importance of establishing the cardiovascular safety of concomitant PPI treatment. Ray and colleagues' study (13) also illustrated the efficacy of PPI therapy in combination with dual antiplatelet treatment by showing a remarkable reduction in risk for gastrointestinal bleeding in patients who received combination therapy.
Our study furthers the research in this area by investigating the risk for cardiovascular events in a nationwide, unselected population that represents the average patient who has had a myocardial infarction. We demonstrated that PPI therapy did not modify the effect of clopidogrel on cardiovascular outcomes and that PPI use was associated with increased cardiovascular risk independent of concomitant use of clopidogrel.
We suspect that the increased cardiovascular risk in all patients who received a PPI can be explained by differences in baseline comorbid conditions that were unmeasured or measured imperfectly. Such unmeasured confounders would have to elevate the risk 2.5- to 3-fold to explain the observed increased risk for cardiovascular events. This is a large but potentially plausible amount of risk elevation for a confounder or a mix of confounders, particularly because these registry data lacked detailed information on risk factors, such as smoking, lipid levels, body mass index, and left ventricle ejection fraction.
We also demonstrated a reduction in risk for gastrointestinal bleeding related to PPI therapy for patients who received clopidogrel, although it did not reach statistical significance. In Denmark, PPIs are prescribed mainly for patients with a clear indication, such as peptic ulcer. Thus, we expected the cohort of patients treated with PPIs to be heavily confounded by the indication for PPIs and to have a higher bleeding risk than patients in countries where guidelines recommend routine use of PPIs in combination with dual antiplatelet therapy. This may explain why our study did not find a statistically significant protective effect of PPIs on risk for gastrointestinal bleeding.
Previous studies (9 - 10) have reported that the risk for adverse cardiovascular outcomes was particularly increased by concomitant treatment with omeprazole and clopidogrel, on the basis of proposed differences in drug-specific metabolism and diminished antiplatelet effects ex vivo (6 - 7,23). Our data set provided no evidence of differences in risk between the subtypes of PPIs, with or without clopidogrel. Sensitivity analyses also provided no evidence of differences in risk related to heart failure, diabetes, age, hospitals, or PPI dosages. However, we did find a statistically significant interaction between PCI and PPIs in the group that received clopidogrel.
Several considerations and limitations may affect the interpretation of our results. We had no self-reported patient data regarding adherence. We were also dependent on patients filling prescriptions after discharge, and we chose day 30 as the inclusion day for primary analyses to avoid a potential immortal time bias. The comparison of baseline characteristics between day 30 and discharge (Table 1 and Appendix Table 5) illustrates this potential bias, because 83.5% of the patients who died in the first 30 days were in the cohort who did not fill a prescription for either clopidogrel or a PPI. The high 30-day mortality rate in this cohort can be explained by the inclusion of high-risk patients who may not have received clopidogrel or a PPI by the choice of their physicians, whereas other high-risk patients who were actually given prescriptions at discharge could have been too sick to fill their prescriptions or could have been readmitted to the hospital before they filled them. Of note, we examined the cohort at various assembly time points, including 7 and 21 days after myocardial infarction, and found no differences in the hazard rate ratios of the effect of the interaction between PPIs and clopidogrel in relation to assembly time point.
Our study's strengths include the large size of our cohort based on a nationwide, unselected population that represents average patients in a contemporary clinical setting who have had a myocardial infarction. The Danish National Patient Registry includes all hospital admissions in Denmark and is therefore not affected by selection bias stemming from selective inclusion of specific hospitals, health insurance systems, or age groups. The concordance between drug dispensing and drug consumption is probably high, because reimbursement of drug expenses is only partial, and most drugs, including PPIs, were not available over the counter in Denmark during the study period (exceptions include aspirin and H2-antagonists). Because of the partial reimbursement of drug expenses by Danish authorities, we reasonably assumed that a patient who claimed a prescription from the pharmacy intended to take the drug.
Our study has additional limitations. Clopidogrel resistance has been linked to genotype polymorphisms. Although we have no knowledge of the precise distribution of these polymorphisms in our largely white study population, several studies (28 - 29) based in the countries that surround Denmark found variations in relevant genes that matched those reported earlier for white populations. However, generalizing these data to other racial and ethnic groups should be done with caution. Finally, we had no information on the indications for PPI therapy.
In conclusion, PPIs seem to be associated with an increased risk for adverse cardiovascular outcomes regardless of clopidogrel use, but concomitant PPI and clopidogrel use was not associated with any additional increase in risk over that observed for patients who received a PPI alone. We believe that the increased cardiovascular risk associated with PPI use independent of clopidogrel is caused by unmeasured confounders. These results seem to refute concerns about increased risk for ischemic events during concomitant PPI and clopidogrel between the different PPIs would have been more helpful in making conclusions here as different PPIs have different levels of interactions with clopidogrel. The mechanisms of drug interaction is also of interest in this era of polypharmacy
None declared. |
I considered calling this post Falling Short, to soften the blow. But instead decided to go balls to the wall with what I really mean. Failure. How can I stop being afraid of it if I can’t even stop being afraid to say it?
Dylan said, “There’s no success like failure, and failure’s no success at all.” Whatever that means. But I like the sound of it. I feel there is a potential there that I, with my paralytic fear of failure, can’t quite grasp. My dad says your successes can’t exceed 25% of your failures, so get out there and fuck up! (paraphrased) That’s a little more straight forward.
failed to plant succession, harvested too much at once, washed when i shouldn't have, stored wet in the fridge=2 gallons of rotten salad greens
Erica from NW Edibles recently outed the naked, cold fact that they are spending $2,000 to have a chicken coop built for them. Wow, brave girl. I would have hidden that one under my bed for sure. In a locked box. That’s what they invented lies for, Erica.
I’m not mentioning Erica because I think their $2,000 chicken coop represents failure. Please don’t misunderstand! It’s dangerous ground we tread here. But she lays bare her feelings of falling short of that shiny Urban Homesteader Ideal, and I know just what she means. I know how life can lead you on a crazy circuitous path, which cannot be traveled backwards, and then deposit you *BAM* where you least expected to end up. Picking yourself up, dusting off and finding a way to keep on is the stuff of saints as far as I’m concerned. Or beetles.
Myself, when fear of failure or the associated guilt of transgression hits, I can sometimes be completely incapacitated. I’ve abandoned many a project when the first failures start rolling in, or even just because failure lurked around the next bend. And that ain’t no good, no how.
Maybe it’s just me. One of my little Issues. But I’ve been fascinated by my crippling fear of failure and it’s many reprecussions throughout my life.
Long, loooong ago, when I worked as a “handler” for a dog musher back in Alaska, it was my job to run the dogs every day. Riding a dog sled, particularly on a low snow winter like that one was, is a skill that took me months to even get an edge on. I had a little epiphany on one of the many occasions that I was being dragged behind the tipped over sled (never, never let go of the sled), face down over the fast moving snow. I realized that when the sled went round a corner, I needed to lean in to the curve. But instead my fear of the speed made me lean outward, in a visceral desire to abandon the sled. Leaning out on a curve tips the sled over. Simple physics.
I don’t believe, as some do, that your thoughts somehow energistically manifest into your life to create what you want or fear. But my sled epiphany made me see how fear drives me to act in a certain way, a fearful way, that sometimes causes the very thing I fear to happen. It’s not magic, it’s logic. With a heavy dose of irony.
i loved this lemon tree. then i forgot to water it. for several months. now it's dying, covered with tiny lemons, and dying. damn me!
In addition to the negative of sabotaging our efforts, there’s a big, important positive to failure. Nothing is more instructive. Imagine if you refused to let your kid play with pen and paper until they could write a perfect ‘A.’ Obviously kids have to practice a lot before they learn to write, and ‘practice’ means fucking around with a pen and paper. Each distinct failure teaches us so many, many things that simple success can never offer.
The trick to abolishing our fear of failure and embracing it instead as our benificent teacher (a trick that I have failed to learn as of yet) is not to let our every action define us. Isn’t that what I strive to teach my kids? You may do a mean thing to a friend, that doesn’t make you a mean person. You may fail to consume all the cases of marmalade you so eagerly sliced, cooked and canned last year and instead have to dump them down the drain to free the jars for other purposes (ahem) but that does not mean you are a failure.
Another point which must be sharpened is that a lot of what we perceive as “failure” is actually only failure to live up to an impossible fantasy of perfection. Take Erica and her coop. Some part of her might feel that she has failed to be the uber-cool urban homesteader who does everything herself on a shoestring budget. But in fact, all she has done is prioritize her time. There’s a limited quantity of it, don’t you know.
Actually you might not know. I’m not sure whether I really do. The capitalist system and our unleashed advertising industry has worked very hard to make us believe that there are no such limits. This is really a whole post of it’s own that has lay dormant in my mind for months. I believe it affects every aspect of our lives and I have much too much to say about it. But, relevant to this subject, they saturate us with the unspoken premise that there are no limits, no need to choose priorities, you can have it all! (just sign here).
There follows a seemingly reasonable equation: If ‘all’ is possible, and I can’t achieve ‘all,’ I failed.
I assure you, it’s the equation that’s at fault!
Even though I understand this well with my intellect, that deeper core of my brain that advertising plugs straight into still Believes. And suffers the all the guilt, shame, and fear.
It’s really a lot of what this blog has ended up being about for me. Confronting the impossible expectations we are suffused with. Attempting to slowly erase the 33 years (and counting) of culture telling me I can and should have it all. Teasing out the important bits from the hectic hairball of modern life, making my priorities, and fighting back the scaly beasts of disillusionment, guilt and failure.
Back to the cave with you, foul creatures!
Beloved Boo (once again),
If I could be there to give you a hug, I would. If I could be there to show you a photo of me hanging (literally) from the rafters after a night of full-bore indiscretion (not a good image I know) I would. And why? Cause A) I love outing myself so that no one, no one, no one, will ever take my life history as being neat and B) Cause messiness and failure is part of the journey.
Holy crap girl. What you think? Even those who look like they got their shit together don’t. Or, if they do, it took a good measure of facing off with the folly of ego, self righteousness and plan old fashion head-up-the-ass-ism.
We are all broken creatures trying to find truth in a system that suggests success as some consequence of good choices. That’s a lie. We have all had a cookie dangled in front of our faces — this life, safe life, good life if you make the right choices. Ha.
Fact is, we are all round and soft spirits in a linear and harsh world and it can (and has) made life way confusing. We are all working to undo that capitalist narrative (and you are right to intuit a huge thorn there). We are all banging our heads against that system with some of us are more willing to admit it. The gig is up though.
So when you tell us that you tossed the marmalade down the sink you open a hole in everyone else’s precious stories so they, too, can come out and say….What the hell is this life really about? How do we live up in here? And then we get to talk for real like.
Yes, there is beauty. Lots of it. But I’m here to tell you there is lots and lots of failure. I’m pushing 60 and there is still a whole lot of failure out there, in here, and all around. But like Ram Dass says….”You never get rid of your demons you just invite them in for tea.” Good one that. Too bad you got rid of your marmalade cause I hear demons like it with a spot of toast.
So breathe and accept the brokeness. You will never outrun it. And ignore Dylan. He is a wordsmith but can be full of shit like the rest of us. Besides, ever since he did that Victoria Secret ad I have had a few well chosen words for him. Like…..yeah you don’t want to be a cultural icon but do you have to be a sell out to prove it? But then we go way back. I’ve had a crush on him since I was 15 and used to think he was actually saying something important. Too bad for him I’m turning my gaze to Leonard Cohen – a wordsmith you can still trust.
I should have known.
My top three songwriters: Dylan, Leonard Cohen, and Ani DiFranco.
I know Dylans full of shit, but my can he turn a phrase.
Hang in there girl! “Just keep swimming….”
Ah, sweet, sweet, nasty arsed failure.
I bought a fucking hair straightener today. It came in the pack with a hair dryer. Cos I didn’t have a hair dryer. I don’t know what to do with either of them.
Enuf said?….
(Harriet, if you want a sweet man to listen to, may I suggest Xavier Rudd? He’s a gentle, sweet man, with many musical talents. Google, youtube-ify, and enjoy.)
Loved your failures! Not so that I could point and laugh, but because they’re so like mine.
I have about a decade on you, but I remember my ephiphany moment – the day I realized that my failures were not something to run from, but well earned tuition.
Sometimes I need a swift kick in the rear end to remind me to do something better. Othertimes I need that kick to tell me to back off and slow things down. Either way, it’s a cosmic wake-up call and I’m finally, finally listening. :)
Thanks for letting me know others struggle with fear of failure. My blogging is haphazard b/c I often spend way to much time worry if a post sucks or what people will think. I end up frozen by the fear of failing at blogging of all things. :)
Nice to remember to not let it paralyze me. Can’t learn without fucking up a few times. When we are kids we get that but when we are adults we just seem to think we should be perfect at all times.
Now if I can just take that feeling of empowerment with me.
Oh, the $2000 I can cop to. It’s the unending frustration bordering on resentment that’s growing for my sweet infant son who will not go the fuck to sleep. At all. Not for naps, not at night. 8 months of sleep deprivation and I am about to lose my mind. But that’s just between us. Can’t put that on *my* blog, it wouldn’t be relevant. ;)
I did feel guilt over paying for the convenience of someone else building the coop. You have it exactly right: the *image* of DIY Urban Homesteady Girl isn’t: hey, here’s some money to fix my problem (lack of coop). It’s, “Hey, I can tackle anything! I’m capable, I’m competent! I can do it all by myself!” And that’s just not reality.
I try to remind myself that a problem that can be fixed by throwing money at it, assuming you have the money to do so, isn’t a problem at all. It’s just an expense. Cancer is a problem, addiction is a problem, laying on the floor sobbing because you’re beyond exhausted and you’re so pigheaded that you keep trying to keep going, even though your brain hasn’t had quiet time for 8 months…well, that’s *my* problem.
$2000 is just bartered time.
If you figure out how to get through to yourself and stop trying to do it all, will you please, please tell me?
Great post, per usual.
Erica,
We need to talk. About babies, and not so much babies anymore, and sleeping and not so much sleeping. I’d direct you to my archives, but I hear you’ve already read them all ;)
I may have missed a few. I spent a good several afternoons on my ass on the couch with your blog but you’ve been at this for awhile; there’s material here. May have missed a month or two. Got a specific post (posts) I should check out?
Once at a monastic retreat, I was very worried about screwing up the amazingly fussy and precise Zen rituals we were going to be doing the next day. I had only recently been lay ordained and though I had my robes, bowls, etc- all the trappings of spiritual materialism, I didn’t have my head very squared away yet.
I diminished myself as only a sort of “home-school” Buddhist from small-town Alaska, and was in the midst of real deal big wigs in brown robes and was really afraid of messing up big time. I told the director.
She said: “look, as a Buddhist, you know that all things are; impermanent, interconnected, and imperfect. Anytime you do anything for the first time, it’s going to be a little rough- even after doing something a zillion times you can still screw up.”
“Whatever it is- just do the best you can with what you got at the time where you are. It’s all you can ever do. Embrace your awkwardness.” she said with a little exasperation. (I think that’s a kind zen paraphrase of “suck it up, cupcake!”)
Anyhow “Embrace your awkwardness” has been a very helpful, as is the (obvious) knowledge that nothing is ever perfect. Though sometimes it takes some VERY big arms to embrace my awkwardness….. Besides, if we waited to be perfect before doing anything, nothing would ever get done.
I went through some of our readings and found one that kind of speaks to this. I’ve attached it below.
All the best, I love your blog posts.
K
Saying Yes to an Open Heart
Diana Winston- Buddhadharma, Summer 2010 Zen, time after time, you learn to say yes. Yes to your jagged breathing, yes to your itchy scalp. Yes to the chainsaw dude across the street, yes to your grief and pain and shame and grandiosity and fear. Not because you want to act on these things, but because they’re true, and fleeting, and simply part of who you are at the moment (but not even the half of who you really are). Your nervous system begins to relax- at last you’re acknowledging the truth of things.
Saying yes means attending to and surrendering to your experience, whatever it is. It means feeling your body when you’re in the midst of a strong reaction or emotion, and letting whatever you find simply be there. It means coming back to your breath, or this present moment, again and again. It means noticing that thoughts and feelings and sensations come and go.
You say yes to your pride, your stupidity, your murderous rage. Naturally you don’t act on you murderous rage, but you allow it to be true within you. It is a very inclusive practice. Nothing is ever left out.
You discover that if you are pushing away your experience, even ever so slightly, you mindfulness is not fully realized, no is say no. “Oh, Jeez,.
Hey Kelly! Great to get a comment from you. Great essay too. This open heart stuff is where it’s at, but oh so hard to pull off regularly…
Ken Robinson did a good speech in which he talked, amongst other things, about the value of failure. It’s called Do schools kill creativity, look it up on YouTube. He’s not a homeschooling guy or anything like that, just saying it like it. He’s talking about the British schooling system but making a very serious point about The importance of failure, as part of the learning curve. I really like what he has to say about education. Oh by the way, I used the quote, thank you! Have a looksey over at Feet on the Ground and Head in the Clouds.
Erica- My boy did not sleep for 8 months either – at all, or only in two hour slots. Drove me nuts but it did change and he became utterly adorable and self sufficient. Just wasn’t a sleeper. It will get better.
Kylie -Thanks, anyone with a sweet gentle nature is worth listening to.
Stringz – Current issue of Oregon Humanities Magazine is on Failure. Might make for good reading.
As so often is the case, so much good chewable brain food over here. Thanks!
Great post, same stuff that’s been going through my head lately too… this Urban Homesteading Ideals business.
As per the chickens thing, I wrote on Sharon Astyk’s recent blog post, chickens are the ultimate urban homesteading ‘accessory’, aren’t they, and they are integral & seemingly essential in many ways. Yet, we are waiting til get ours, til we have time & energy to look after them properly, but I tell you, we won’t be building our own house/ coop after all… same as Erica, we idealised it, we even have some resources, but we don’t have the time or the skills. Erica did a great thing though, in outsourcing to someone who needs the money & the job. In the mean time, I am going to buy local eggs, organic fertilisers and be amused by my children’s antics instead of chickens… and the world will be OK!
I don’t think you need a hug, I think you need a high five! Good on you, for having the guts to throw out the marmalade and know that maybe you don’t need so much next time around. It’s something I deal with… I don’t want to waste anything, I *should* be making the most of an abundance BUT if in the end, I may have wasted energy, resources and my own time to preserve something that gets thrown out anyways. How to know, though, that’s the trick and the skills I am gaining now (hopefully) as a wannabe urban homesteader. And remind myself how lucky I am to be in a position to make mistakes…
Fantastic post and great comments! Failure…yikes, the fear of failure.
When I get down to it most of my “stuff” is connected to a fear of failure is some way, shape or form.
Staying in a job that sucks my soul for one.
Like Erica mentioned, I’m pigheaded- I will struggle and agonize and try to figure out anyway to do it ourselves- to the point of making myself bonkers. And with some things, it just makes me miserable. It loses the joy. If it causes so much angst is it even worth it?
….heres my great fear… that I’m not even trying to do amazing stuff and still I can’t keep up…just as I sort-of, kind-of get one basic thing in hand, say dinner, theres always some other disaster or three to trip me over (literally). All I want is to have an abundent backyard, clean home (full of beautiful, me made wonderful things), be trim, fit and healthy, have some time with the fella, time with the kidlets, time for books… But as soon as one thing has a tick, the others start smelling, yelling, dieing… Yep, my fear is that what I want is simple but that I just don’t have …. what ever it takes to have it.
Thanks again for the eloquent philosophising. I keep wondering how this gift you have can A) reach as broad an audeiuence as possible and B) give back to you (in dare i say it, a monetary way). It would be great to have a class / group / forum for parents where you could facilitate these kinda discussions … compulsory for all would be parents of course (but they wouldn’t get it yet would they?). “HOw to love failure and your new child”. Catchy huh? This would of course happen in your free evennings….
Katj
I’ve been told this in studying yoga, but I’ve seen it in many venues of life…a certain amount of tension that is necessary in order to sustain life. It is that very tension that maintains the balance. If there is no challenge, you lose muscle tone. You lose inspiration. Those challenges and potential failures are what keep us learning.
I’ve been on both sides of it. I’m an ambitious person by nature, usually striving for something. But I’ve also had a period of life where I had many things organized just as I wanted them. Or at least, as I thought they should be…and there was a certain limpness to it. I had blocked out a lot of things that weren’t as I wanted them to be because I couldn’t change them. In the end, I had to open up to the stuff that I hadn’t dared to do, even if it meant giving up some of what I thought I was supposed to be/do/have. And it has turned out to be true. So rewarding.
…I guess the point is to stay in that precious, precarious spot, right on the crest of the wave… and sometimes you pitch head over heels and get tumbled in the surf. You land on the beach with salt water in every orifice, coughing. But that’s ok. You’re really not much worse for the wear and besides, all waves end up back at the beach anyway, no matter how you get there. Hahaha, who knew it wasn’t a destination but an endless cycle. Advertising would have us think otherwise. Like getting in shape. As if you were going to “get there” and it was going to last. :) Apparently it’s not about achieving perfection but the humble, ongoing act of striving.
Hmm, is it bad etiquette to leave comments on older posts?
I look forward to the day that “limits” post finishes cooking and oozes out of your brain- or more realistically is carefully and skillfully sculpted- (unless I’ve missed it and am completely showing my sloppy reading skills just now). I spend a lot of my brain power mulling over a lot of those very same ideas. I second-guess my own eloquence into oblivion, so the thoughts don’t produce much more than “nnmeeeee…baaaaaaaad….” when I try to voice them. You’ve got your voice much more sorted out, it seems. (“Work for my entertainment!” said the stranger on the Internet.) |
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Anand Buddhdev posted <42D3A936.8060306@...>, excerpted below, on
Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:27:50 +0200:
> I'm getting a new AMD64-based computer, and I'd like to run gentoo on it.
> I have been doing a bit of reading about running linux on AMD64, and it
> seems that in general, it's not a? Or was there a lot of frustration involved. I've used linux
> and BSD systems for a long time, so I'm used to hacking, and I'm not
> afraid to mess around with scripts and compilers. But I've reached a point
> when I'd just like to be able to install a system, and have it work.
>.
>
>?
Wow! Where to start? ... Keep in mind that the following describes more
the issues you might come across, than the good things, so it's going to
seem FAR worse than it actually is.
Going 32-bit is slightly easier, as you mention, altho 64-bit is getting
more mainstream every day. 100% 32-bit mode uses the generally larger
amd64 cache (normally 1M L3 cache, compared to perhaps half that on most
32-bit only processors), but doesn't make use of the other strengths of
the amd64 architecture, the biggest one of which is probably the expanded
number of hardware registers available in 64-bit mode. x86 has
traditionally been a rather register-limited arch, and the amd64 CPUs in
32-bit mode remain so for compatibility reasons, so the additional
registers only come into play in 64-bit mode. OTOH, for many things,
unless you have more than 4G memory, 32-bit is quite enough and conserves
resources a bit better. For that reason, on archs less register bound
than x86(32), the switch to 64-bit mode often has more downside for many
uses, than it does upside. x86_64, however, due to those extra registers
only available in 64-bit mode and because x86(32) has always been register
bound, with a fairly limited number of them, tends to swing the balance
rather further in favor of 64-bit mode than with other archs -- 64-bit
performance is often markedly better than 32-bit performance of the same
source code on the exact same CPU and hardware, the only difference being
whether it's compiled with -m32 or -m64, 32- or 64-bit. So... yes, I'd
say that while possible, installing only 32-bit Linux on AMD64 is indeed
wasting resources, to some extent.
...
You've obviously been doing your research, and correctly found that the
main issues tend to be in cases of binary-only releases of various plugins
and codecs. If it's available in source-code form, it's generally
available for use in 64-bit mode on amd64. The quote I have chosen for my
sig pretty well gives my position on proprietary binary-only code in the
first place, so the availability or lack thereof of 64-bit binary-only
codecs and plugins is less of an issue for me than for many others, since
I'd prefer not to have binary-only stuff on my computer in the first
place. If it's not available in standardized form, playable with an
open source product, there are other things I can be doing with my time
anyway, and I'll just skip the proprietary stuff. Of course, I recognize
that not everybody has the same strong opinions on the subject as I do.
For these folks, it's useful to keep in mind that the x86_64 arch, amd64
and the Intel version, is the clear mainline successor to x86. Therefore,
32-bit-only binary-only codecs and plugins will be less and less of a
problem, as eventually all popular software products, freedomware or
proprietary, will have 64-bit versions as well. Now that 64-bit MSWormOS
is out of beta (or soon to be, I no longer track MSWormOS close enough to
be sure), 64-bit versions of the various codecs and plugins should be
available fairly shortly, I'd guess.
Before moving from the subject of 32-bit binary packages, I should also
mention that OpenOffice.org has 64-bit issues, or at least the 1.x
versions do. 2.x is supposed to work on amd64. However, note that due to
its size and complexity, OOo is one of the few apps that even many
hard-core Gentoo users prefer to merge the (32-bit) binary package of,
rather than compiling their own copy themselves. Thus, as with firefox
and mplayer (and their various codecs), the 32-bit OOo can be merged, only
it's even MORE widely used and tested than the other bin-pkgs. Of course,
you may or may not have reason to merge and use OOo anyway. I've found no
need for the various Office suites, here, and if I did, since I use KDE on
my desktop anyway, I'd probably try KOffice first.
...
There's one other set of issues specific (in one sense, tho the general
issue affects others) to /Gentoo/ amd64 (as opposed to Fedora or Mandriva
or SuSE or whatever) that needs to be mentioned, the multilib thing, which
Gentoo /currently/ treats a bit differently than most of the other
distributions.
On a dual-32/64-bitness arch, there are often two copies of various
libraries needed, the 32-bit version and the 64-bit version. The method
for how this is handled has come to be referred to as "multilib". The
Linux Standard Base (LSB) / File Hierarchy Standard (FHS) standard
solution uses two separate dirs, lib64/ (thus, /lib64/, /usr/lib64/,
/usr/local/lib64/, etc) for the 64-bit libraries, reserving the
traditional lib/ dirs (thus /lib/, /usr/lib/, etc) for 32-bit shared
objects. (Note that shared objects, *.so.*, are the "libraries" of Linux,
similar in function to the dynamic link libraries, *.dll, of MSWormOS, but
being around Linux for awhile, you already knew that, I'm sure. This is
just for others that may be following along. =8^)
Gentoo similarly uses two separate dirs, but because Gentoo amd64
implemented them before the FHS standard defined the names for amd64,
Gentoo took the opposite approach, reasoning that lib/ should contain the
native bitness libraries, in this case the 64-bit libraries, with the
32-bit libraries in lib32/. The FHS version makes more sense for
compatibility with existing 32-bit packages, particularly binary-only ones
that may simply assume lib/ is 32-bit, while Gentoo's approach makes more
sense (in the absolute, but see below) in an almost entirely 64-bit
system, and moving forward to a time when 64-bit is mainlined.
The problem for Gentoo is that when the LSB/FHS standard was defined, it
/did/ become the standard. Packages now come from upstream with that
assumption, and it's a lot of work, and becomes ever more work as 64-bit
heads toward mainline, to continually patch everything to use the
non-standard Gentoo locations. Individually, it's usually not much work
at all, just supplying the proper configure option, but the work adds up
over thousands of packages, and with the standard defined and amd64/x86_64
clearly going mainline, it's a lot of /unnecessary/ work, moving forward.
Therefore, Gentoo amd64 is currently in the middle of a year or more
process to safely reverse direction, moving 64-bit libs from lib to lib64
(almost done), and eventually, 32-bit libs from lib32 to lib. Currently,
lib is usually a symlink to lib64, so 64-bit packages that haven't been
fixed yet still work if they install to lib. (32-bit packages are handled
a bit differently, as discussed below.)
Another aspect of what amounts to the same issue -- how to treat what
could be duplicate packages installed in both 32-bit and 64-bit mode -- is
dependency tracking. Imagine what happens if the 32-bit and 64-bit
dependency databases aren't kept separate. You go to emerge a 32-bit
package, and it sees the 64-bit libs it needs are already merged, so it
tries to merge, and fails because it's trying to link against 32-bit
libraries that aren't there to link against! Even worse would be the
possibility of merging 32-bit libraries when doing an update, then erasing
the "old" 64-bit versions of the same libraries as unneeded!
Obviously, this will NOT work, so 32-bit and 64-bit package dependency
and current installation tracking must be kept separate. Unfortunately,
current versions of portage, the Gentoo package management system, cannot
directly handle this requirement. Portage-CVS is slated to get this
ability (if it hasn't already been added) by the time it is released, but
current versions are stuck having to work around the issue.
There are a several different ways of managing things, depending on how
many 32-bit packages you plan on installing. For certain core packages,
currently gcc, glibc, and portage itself, the normal 2005.0 profile (which
is multilib, not 64-bit only, tho that's a subprofile option) causes
/both/ the 32-bit and 64-bit versions to be installed, so portage can
continue to track just the single package. The rest of the 32-bit "system
base" libraries are currently normally installed as 32-bit binary-only
compatibility packages (emul-linux-x86-*).
That's the base 32-bit compatibility installation. If you are only going
to be installing binary-only 32-bit software such as games and the
various codecs and plugins, this, and bin-packages such as mplayer32 if
desired, are all one needs.
If, with such an all-binary 32-bit installation you do decide to compile
and install 32-bit stuff yourself, it's *HIGHLY* recommended that you do
NOT use portage/emerge for doing so. Rather, procure the tarballs
directly, and install "manually", resolving any 32-bit dependencies and
installing them manually if necessary as well. Obviously, this will
become a rather huge hassle rather quickly, however, if you have more than
a couple 32-bit packages you want to compile from source.
For those who have a large list of 32-bit packages they want to run,
there's another option, the 32-bit chroot. The idea is to install a
minimal 32-bit Gentoo installation, without system services such as syslog
and cron and without a 32-bit kernel of course, but with all the usual
libraries and the like, and pointedly, with its own 32-bit portage
installation. Because it's in a chroot, this 32-bit portage installation
will be entirely separate from the system-wide 64-bit portage, so the
dependency tracking systems won't conflict with each other, and any
arbitrary package in portage can be merged as 32-bit, without in any way
affecting the system-wide 64-bit dependencies. Note that once this is
setup, it's possible to add the chroot's library and bin dirs to the
system-wide paths, and execute your 32-bit binaries system-wide, not just
within the chroot.
Obviously, for someone only merging one or two 32-bit packages, the chroot
solution is a lot of unnecessary work, but not so much for someone doing
many such packages, where the work of manually tracking dependencies would
quickly become rather unmanageable. Thus, the different choices for
different purposes. There's more documentation on the chroot option in
the technotes and other locations, if you decide to go this route.
Again, let me stress that this current less-than-ideal situation is
temporary, and will be going away, once both the multilib and portage
multi-bitness issues are resolved. In terms of timetable, that now looks
to be targeted at the 2006.0 release. (It was hoped that it would be done
for 2005.1 coming up shortly, but that appears unlikely, now, particularly
for the portage multi-bitness dependency tracking stuff, as betas aren't
out for the next version yet, meaning it couldn't go stable in time for
the next release, 2005.1.)
Again, as I said at the top, the reality isn't quite as bad as all the
above surely makes it sound. In reality, most things "just work", with
the caveat that you understand that 32-bit libraries won't work in 64-bit
applications, and the reverse, which you've obviously already figured out
from your own research, since you mentioned it.
...
Now, some more general Gentoo newbie hints...
Before you start your installation, READ THE GENTOO HANDBOOK!! The first
section covers installation procedures and most folks read that as they
are installing, but it pays to read it thru (for your chosen arch) first,
getting an overview of what you will be doing, before you start. As you
are doing so, figure out which stage install you plan to use. A stage-3
starts from a mostly bootstrapped system is initially faster to get up
and running, but takes longer to get everything fully customized. A
stage-1 install is initially slower and more complicated, but you end up
knowing far more about how a Linux system works behind the scenes, when
you are done. Here, computing is my hobby, not a job, and learning a
primary purpose, so there was no question, I did a stage-1. In fact, I
went even FURTHER than that, and took apart the bootstrap script and
executed it step by step, manually. In doing so, I learned a LOT about
the system I was building than I knew about Linux before, but it DID take
me quite some time to do it..
For the portage tree and sources, you'll probably want 3G minimum, 5G
or more if you use FEATURES=buildpkg (discussed below). As mentioned
above, OOo is the largest package in terms of compilation space needed in
portage, needing some 5G of scratch space to successfully compile. Again,
you'll likely not be compiling it as even x86 folks often use the binary
package for it, but that gives you an idea of the sort of scratch space
normally required for /var/tmp/. (Here, I've changed both those settings
from the default, keeping the portage tree in its own partition mounted in
a different location, and telling portage to use /tmp/ for its work,
rather than /var/tmp/, so it's possible to change both, but I'm giving you
the default locations, above.)
Another very useful hint for after the initial install, after you've
started customizing your config files (/etc/* and the like). Do *NOT*
just tell etc-update to go ahead and auto-merge all the new config files
after an update (the negative options), without knowing EXACTLY what you
are doing. FAR better to go thru each one individually, and see what it's
going to change, then let it make the changes or not as desired, than to
find out it killed your customizations on something critical like
/etc/fstab! (With /etc/fstab itself, that's no longer a problem, as the
package now updates fstab.example instead, but the problem caught MANY an
unwary Gentoo newbie before they changed that behavior, and the issue
still exists with other files.) Just exercise the usual caution you
should exercise anyway when running as root, think about what a command
will actually do before hitting that enter key, and you'll be fine. Fail
to do so, and your failure will EVENTUALLY bite you! Of course, if you've
been running BSDs and Linux for years, this idea won't be at all new to
you, only the specifics as applied to etc-update.
Before you do the install, however, as well as again afterward when you
are actually ready to start working on your new system, I'd suggest
reading the REST of the handbook as well. The working with Gentoo and
working with Portage sections should be quite interesting to you coming
from other distributions, as they are all about what makes Gentoo
different from the others. Learning about how Gentoo's boot process and
dependency ordering differs from the usual numbered init levels with
numbered start and stop symlinks pointing to the appropriate scripts, the
system most other distributions use, is both interesting and educational,
or I certainly found it so, anyway. (Once you actually get a
system up and start investigating, you'll find that in practice,
the init levels are still there. Gentoo just lets you deal with
them by name instead of number, if desired. However, the way
Gentoo's boot scripts resolve boot-time dependencies is VERY
fascinating!) Likewise with how portage works and the many ways to
customize it. It was fascinating seeing how much more flexible it made
things for the typical sysadmin, as compared to the typical rpm or deb
package management system, yet how even with all that flexibility, it
still managed to keep things simple and decently manageable, without
confusion. By reading these things ahead of time, you'll understand far
more about what makes Gentoo, Gentoo, and parts of the install that might
otherwise seem entirely arbitrary will be instead entirely logical and
natural. Reading it again as you actually start working with a running
Gentoo, you'll find things just seem to naturally work the way you'd
expect them to, where otherwise they'd seem just an arbitrary series of
commands that didn't make a lot of sense.
Of course, beyond the handbook, Gentoo has lots of additional
documentation -- one of its strengths as compared to other distros. How
to configure printing, how to configure your sound system, how to manage
udev, all this and more the Gentoo documentation covers in
Gentoo specific step-by-steps that other distributions lack.
One other specific document I should mention: the Gentoo amd64 technotes.
These explain most of the differences between x86 and amd64, both in what
you can expect from the hardware, and in software. Last I looked, some of
the technotes were a bit dated (they still referred to gcc-3.3 in the
future, for instance), but it's still a very good overview, covering
things like the 32-bit chroot option mentioned earlier, and the thing
about OOo, as well as things like common hardware issues and what to do
about them. I'll mention one important note specifically. BEFORE YOU
INSTALL GENTOO AMD64, UPDATE YOUR BIOS from the manufacturer's web site.
Even if the system is new, that doesn't mean it has the latest BIOS, and
MANY have found that the troubles they initially had "magically" went
away, when they installed the latest BIOS. Likewise, continue checking
periodically for additional updates. I had the latest when I installed
Gentoo, but additional BIOS updates since then have increased system
stability and performance, rather more than I would have expected, in fact.
The technotes can be a bit harder to find than the Gentoo Handbook and
other documentation, so here's a direct link: (The
technotes are also linked from the main project page at, which is easier to remember, and has some other
information as well, but the link from there is harder to find, so I
suggest bookmarking the direct link.)
Another useful hint, about portage, this time. You'll understand the
significance of this a bit more after reading the portage features chapter
of the working with Gentoo section of the handbook, but setting
FEATURES=buildpkg in make.conf causes portage to routinely build binary
packages of everything it emerges. This can be very useful for several
reasons. First, it's very helpful if you somehow break gcc, preventing
emerging gcc again to fix the issue. =8^( If you have the binary package
already built, it's a simple matter to remerge the binary package and have
a working gcc again! =8^) If it was an upgrade that broke it, simply
emerge the previous version's binary package rather than the newest! If
portage itself breaks, that means you can't emerge stuff, but since the
binary packages are simply tar.bz2 tarballs with a bit of additional
metadata tacked onto the end, you can simply extract the portage binpkg
tarball directly over your live filesystem, replacing the broken portage
files with good versions, and be back in business! =8^)
However, rescue functionality isn't the only thing binpkgs are good for.
Additionally, it's easy to switch between versions to troubleshoot
something or other, if necessary -- FAR easier than having to recompile an
old version to see if that fixes whatever the problem is, then recompiling
the new one again to get it back. Also, again, the binpkgs are simply
tbz2 files with a bit of extra metadata at the end, so it's easy enough to
go find a binpkg to see what a particular default config file looks like
in it, as compared to your customized installed version, or whether a file
that should exist but is missing, existed in the package as installed (and
therefore as archived in the binpkg), so it got deleted later, or if it
was missing in the installed version as well. Of course, I'm running
~amd64 (the ~ indicating unstable or testing), and in fact sometimes
installing packages before they are even marked testing, testing them
early, so all this troubleshooting ability is more useful here than it
would be to an ordinary stable amd64 user, but it's always useful to have,
none-the-less.
So... hopefully that's all helpful and not too overwhelming... If you
follow this list/group regularly (which I'd recommend, it's not so busy
as to prevent it and ypu'll find useful information on what's ahead from
time to time, even if the usual discussion isn't of interest to you),
you'll find that yes, my replies are /often/ this long and detailed. . |
It is rare that Big Raddy struggles to raise enthusiasm for a post but this week has been just so disappointing. Two hard defeats, a dull AGM and another plucky MU victory, all horribly depressing. Apart from our neighbours scraping a draw with a team of chicken farmers and the losses of MC and the Chavs, it has been unremitting pain.
BR on Thursday morning
Just look at his record. This fool has destroyed club after club, admittedly he doesn’t cause the economic ruin that *Arry does, No, what Hughes does is more insidious. He teaches players to perform as he did, with touches of panache which disguise a petty violence – he is the ankle tapper, the achilles tendon breaker as opposed to the leg breaking of Allardyce. At least Allardyce stands up for his crimes to football, Sparky just blames others.
Unfortunately, Rangers have started to improve. The tens of millions spent on new players may not have been wasted as the team starts to gel. I watched their performance last weekend in the draw with Everton and QPR looked good – they could and should have won. Decent ball players, the creativity of Taraabt, some pace and stout defenders…. you know their assets as well as I do. But…..
This game will revolve entirely around Arsenal’s performance. My prayer is that we score early and stop the ill-humour which will inevitably grow should the team struggle. Get the fans onboard, start playing the football we know we can and get back to winning ways.
The signs are that Wilshere will get some pitch-time which is a huge fillip to the fans. So much expectation is resting upon his very young shoulders, but should he be the player we all think he is, then the future is rosy.
My team:
Much depends upon who is fit. What is clear is that somehow we have to create chances for the forwards. In the last two game we haven’t had a sniff at goal. We don’t have the type of strikers who can create their own chances, ours are finishers. The Gervinho in the middle ploy worked for a couple of games but (and I hesitate to say this) he is not intelligent enough to play the role being asked of him – he is no Thierry. We have an expensive CF, play him and let him show what he can do, let Giroud play 90 minutes. Podolski has been subbed in almost every game which makes me question his fitness, so why not give him a 2 week rest?
As to Santos. I feel he has been vilified in the same way that Ramsey, Song, Eboue etc etc have been. Santos is a good player working his way back into the team after a long lay-off through injury, that said, his lack of match fitness is costing us goals, both Norwich and Schalke’s first were as a direct result of Santos not keeping the defensive line; if Gibbs is fit he must start.
Today’s man is just a taster for one of Britain’s great heroes; David Livingstone was an extraordinary man who needs more time than I have today. Instead I will leave you with a picture of his father-in-law, a missionary who established a South African church in 1820.
Three points is a must today. Not just to stop the rot but to condemn Mr Hughes to a P45 (if they exist anymore)
Written by Big Raddy
We must get more attacking impotus from our wide boys today, whoever they may be. The improvement in our defensive stats has inevitably come at a cost to our attacking play with full backs not quite so eager to bomb over half way at every opportunity, and our wingers having to work harder tracking back, which leaves our striker isolated all too often.
We have shown against Liverpool that this more defensive approach can work brilliantly on the counter attack, but we seem to be struggling to alter our mind set when having to take the game to lesser teams. It’s time to take the shackles off the wide players and let them do what they do best. If we can’t do that against the bottom of the league then when can we?
I agree with BR that an early goal would be the key to a big performance, but if we get 30 minutes in without a goal it could be a very long afternoon.
The pre match king well done but i believe Gibbs is still out.
Thanks for the preview Big Randy. I felt the same as you did on Thursday morning. Surely we can’t be that dire again 3 games in a row ? You are right, if we don’t get an early goal the mood in the crowd could get quite ugly.
Morning all
I’m ready, the sun is shining and The Emerates always looks so beautiful in the sunshine. If we play our football and score early that will be good. The team need to get back to enjoying playing together and today is the day ……. fingers crossed
Rasp and I will be at The Tavern from 1.30, see all comers there later.
Thank you Raddy for the large dose of optimism, very much appreciated these days.
I have no views on Hughes, but respect your opinion and shall hate him from this day forward. Santos would not be half as tired if he stayed in his position, instead of charging forward.
Please, please, pretty please Dennis, help!!!!
MATCH FACTS
(source: BBC website)
Good post BR
But I think you are mistaken when you say that “both Norwich and Schalke’s first were as a direct result of Santos not keeping the defensive line.”
The way I remember it the Norwich goal was scored from a long range shot that Mannone spilled and was then tapped in by one Nowich player or another. How is Santos to blame for that?
The Schalke goal again came down the middle in which Vermaelen had nodded off, yet again how do you blame Santos for this?
I obviously do agree that Santos is working his way back to match fitness after a long lay off.
Wow Raddy, that is a forest of facial growth. Even a light trim would have resulted in some serious global warming.
Jack was on the bench at Norwich and Chas told me he played a full 90 for someone on monday, so for me he starts.
Thank you, and I hope you are having a great time in Paris. Students eh!
Good post Big Moody.
Depending on Koscielny (see following analysis)
Mannone
Jenkinson – Mertesacker – Koscielny – Vermaelen
Ramsey – Cazorla – Arteta
Ox-Chamberlain – Giroud – Gervinho
I noticed a comment from KELSEY at the end of yesterday’s excellent post, re Koscielny’s fitness… I had mentioned it also, earlier in the post. I personally think he wasn’t fully fit and would have been used only in an emergency (injury to Mertesacker or Vermaelen). If that’s still the case today, and if Santos is dropped, then maybe the back-four could include (surprisingly) Djourou.
Jenkinson – Mertesacker – Djourou – Vermaelen.
(with Koscielny again on the bench IF he’s not FULLY fit).
@ Ritchie – great stories about Avanull Road and Gran etc, yesterday.
Evonne,
I love your thinking. Something along the lines of: “I know nothing about so and so, but if Raddy says bad things about him, then from this moment forwards, I shall detest every fibre in his spineless body”
Have fun all that are going, and remember to drop a drink and some scratchings over the road to Chary.
If Walcott is fit, I reckon he is nailed on to start.
Just noticed Big Moody’s last comment under the pic of that ZZ Top bloke.
“to condemn Mr Hughes to a P45″
Which reminds me that I wanted to ask you all (some time ago) for your thoughts as regards the first Premiership managerial casualty, should there be one this season. This seems a reasonable time seeing as Hughes is possibly in the running…
Sorry to go off-topic (to a degree), and if this has been discussed on a previous post, then apologies, but my computer had to go into hospital for quite some time recently, and I may have missed it (?).
I can’t get over the idea that Weedonald lives 2700 miles away, I still don’t know exactly where, this came to mind after looking out he window and thinking hmmm it’s a bit windy today the journey may take me 25 instead of 20 minutes to get to the ground.
Hopefully Hughes and Rodgers won’t last the season at lLverpool, Big Al.
Thanks Raddy, once again you’ve summed up my mood for today’s game Victory is vital … end of.
On another note I must compliment everyone on a great day’s blogging yesterday. richie and GoonerB have certainly added something to our content.
Which brings me to richie’s comment @12:30 on yesterdays post. We are blessed with so many friends who have unbelievable provenance in terms of The Arsenal. GunnerN5 and Brigam and several others basically grew up outside Highbury and have fantastic tales to tell … but richie may have eclipsed you
I met a really nice guy at the AGM who also grew up in the area and his whole family are Arsenal supporters. Sadly his father actually died on the terraces at Highbury. Being the pushy sod I am, I asked him if he would like to write his story for the site. He said yes, but was probably just being polite Any way ***, if you’re reading, we’ll be at The Tavern at about 1:30 today if you fancy a beer before the game.
Morning LB, looks like we’re both Theo fans now
I have been sitting on a post about Theo for about a week now but haven’t had the opportunity to publish.
‘Lex Luther to Arsene’s Superman’
Love the rant, Raddy, and thanks for a fine pre-match. You have lifted our spirits.
Rasp,
I had already complimented people on the quality of blogging. Always know that while you sleep, the site is in safe hands
Have a great day, and I wish I was there with you.
Off out now, back to join Cinders and Chums for the game from the sofas.
Since we have acquired so many bloggers who grew up within the sound of the refs whistle at Highbury (as opposed to Bow Bells) we really should have a collective name for them don’t you think? …. HighGunners?
Thanks Micky, I’m sorry I often don’t get the chance to catch up on comments. The early morning club of which you and chas are founder members is always a joy to read back over and as a result I start my day with a smile even if I can’t join in
Micky, sorry you won’t be joining us in the biting wind today – when am I next likely to enjoy your company (and some tasty Turkish cuisine) at a game?
How about Goonbury’s!
Hi all
I’d love to know who would like to write the match report before I go to the game ……… any offers?
Goonbury’s – love it, do I count even though I left the area when I was 6
We know it will be a 4-3-3 system but I like your line up BR. You know I feel that Giroud often doesn’t get the players in close enough to him to support at times, and he ends up looking isolated. As the game becomes fluid I would love to see us at times getting Theo or the ox in tighter to Giroud for support with the midfield 3 moving one place to the right so that Le Coq becomes almost a right winger, and Gervinho coming more to the left flank. It turns it more to a 4-4-2 and I am not suggesting we should stay rigid to that formation throughout the game, but adopt it at times during the game to give Giroud more of a strike partner if you like. Anyway just leaving work so must dash to get the train I want.
Hi GoonerB, you leave me standing in terms of your tactical and positional knowledge.
I certainly want to see Coquelin on the pitch today, even if it is at the expense of Ramsey. Some of his tackling was fantastic on Wednesday and he has greater skills/tricks than Theo. I can see Coquelin being a top player in the future.
My line-up would be:
GK: Mannone, CBs: Koscielny/Djourou & Vermaelen, CB(Sweeper): Mertesacker
RWB/RM: Jenkinson, LWB/LM: Santos, CM(Holding): Coquelin, CM(Box-to-Box):Arteta, CM(Advanced): Ramsey, CF(Main): Giroud, SF(Side-forward): Cazorla
Subs: Martinez, Djourou/Koscielny, Gervinho, Podolski(rested), Walcott/Arshavin, Sagna, Wilshere/Gnabry.
Tactic: Attack from Right flank, Containment in the middle, Decoy along Left flank.
Arsene’s line-up should be 4-3-3(Defensive) of course.
Morning all, hope you’re all in good shape!
Have been reading what’s been an excellent week in terms of quality of this blog and mourning what has been a woeful week in terms of quality of performance on the park…completely unable to be rational when I’ve tried to post so have avoided it! But let’s not dwell on that…
Raddy – great to call out Hughes on what he is…a neanderthal who hides his vile ways under a veneer of civility…he’s a cretin and always has been…
Today’s another day, folks – a good win today could set us up for (shock horror!) a good November. Wrap up warm ‘cos in spite of the sun it’s BITTER cold out there and bring your singing voices!
Thanks Rhyle and JM, I have been toying with the idea of having a sort of league table of team selection predictions. Poor Raddy always has to put his head on the line in his PM …. the only trouble with the idea is it will involve me in more ‘behind the scenes time’ so I’ll only instigate it if there is enough support for the idea.
Right off to the game … catchup later …… and happy I hope ……..
I’m still holding out hope that Wengers words at the end of the last TW will ring true in January. I still don’t think he has finished moulding this new squad and we may see a few outs in January and hopefully 1 or 2 ins if he can find the right players.
Fab match preview as always BR
i’m looking forward already to your Livingstone tribute!
Rasp, the line up prediction is a great idea. The fantasy league is interesting enough, maybe we could have a score prediction league too, soon you’ll be running out of space for the widgets.
Anyway i am hoping Santos doesn’t get a game as QPR will target for sure when its bus comes out from parking.
My team
Vito, Jenks, BFG, TV, Bac, Mikel, Coq, Caz, Gerv, Giroud, Ox/Theo
Shoot on sight please.
TV & Santos probably – stay in defense please.
Gerv/Ox/Theo get in the box with Giroud when the ball is on your opposite flank please.
Arsenal win please.
4.1
@GIE from last post. They were such different times Charlie George was a local lad who played football in Highbury Fields with my uncle, Johnny Radford lodged with my gran Pat Rice’s brother was the barber and the team often trained in Clissold Park. They drove Ford angla’s
I remember it was such a big thing when Sammy Nelson bought an Alfa Romeo. It was like how did he manage to save up for that? Who’s he think he is anyway with a bloody Alfa?
Now the average players drive a car worth a house.
Final plea for a match report before I leave ………. anyone?
Micky – don’t know if you are just taking the piss, which I presume you are, but to be honest with you I didn’t hate Tony Pullis or Cambridgeshire referee Darren Deadman until I met GiE, or Martin O’Neill, or Orcs until you lot poisoned my little mind
I was on a tube half hour ago, lots of fans getting off at Finsubury Park, all very somber faced
I think we are bracing ourselves for the unspeakable
No Evonne, not taking the piss at all. Au contraire, I like the cut of your jib
Well, I have not heard a good reason why Jack cannot start. So Jack starts for me.
There will be a bus in town, so a cute passer will be handy. His presense will also lift spirits on and off the pitch.
I assume they’ve got two big oiks at the back, so I’d attempt to play along the ground and through and past the bloody apes.
Therefore its:
…………Vito
Jenk Mert Verm Miqu
…..Santi Art Jack
Theo Pod Gerv
Off again until KO
@ LB10:26 I hate to have to remember this coz I’m trying to forget but Santos played Holt onside otherwise he would’ve been off-side for his tap in that Mannone spilled. Thats whats meant by him not keeping the defensive line.
Big thumbs up on the match report B Raddy, always a delight..
An early goal would be just the tonic me thinks, and i would gladly sacrifice the sexy football for a guaranteed 3 points..Its backs to the walls time and we must stand up and fight, show those loftus fools whos house they are in and get our respect back even if its ugly on the eye..
No Retreat, No Surrender!
Up the Arse
Just for you Micky, jack starts.
All you Gooners out there, where ever you may be, Enjoy the game, block out all the negatives and keep the faith !!
Remember even ‘titi’ was a flop in his first 8 weeks….. Miracles do happen and the stars shall align again…MAGIC-its the Arsenal way
Mannone, Sagna, Mertesacker, Vermaelen, Santos, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsey, Cazorla, Podolski, Giroud.
subs: Martinez, Koscielny, Jenkinson, Coquelin, Walcott, Arshavin, Gervinho
Hi Jack, Hows your back? Havnt seen you for ears and ears but i still knows your cheeky
Ive got my coat…..
Thanks Kelsey
well lets hope santos is going to get some help from TV & midfield
Has anybody got the stats:- games we have won this season with Ramsey and games we have won without Ramsey?
@LB further to the previous point if you wanna confirm how Santos didn’t keep the defensive line check out
Off now KO close.
I thought Santos was chosen to play on the left flank
Didn’t expect Sagna or Wilshere to start.These are risks which i hope comes off. No real pace on the flanks but let’s hope we stuff toillett and co down the toilet.
That’s good Kelsey.
Theo on the bench (so fit) mmmm
Oh well, show us what you do best Arsenal.
Come on you Gunnnnnners
Damned if you do, damned if you dont..Sometimes i dont envy Arsenes job..
COYRRG!!
Reddawn you don’t really want to know, just enjoy the game
If we keep Granero quiet we kill the supply to Hoilett..its elementary my dear
Crakcing pre match and fantastic picture
What do we do best,Micky
Aren’t you there sharkey ?
He’s back! He’s back! Jack is back!!!!!!!!
mouth watering and ox on bench…unbelievabubble
how are you Oz?
Love the gravatar btw, smells like teen spirit= youth naivity?
Oh yeah PPP everything is right in the world again. Jacks my favourite gunner, pod was my favourite none gunner but now plays for us. All thats missing is the trophies (not long of a wait though.
Yourself?
Raddy was right, they are already kicking Sagna. Gosh I hate Mark Hughes
hi oz and ppp
haha cheers, just showing everyone what BSR really thought of as a young boy
oh no Oz, I just enlarged your gravator, yuk
great…it’s Evonne, lets go PPP. haha hi, hope all is well Evonne!
Confident on that front as well! Other than that heaps busy with work and holidays round the corner, although evryhings fine when your still breathing in the morning and our Gunners are on track. Im easily pleased
Come on boys, stand up and be counted!!
Hi Evonne, hows the sofa?
hey that CD has sold millions. get your mind outa the gutter!
agreed PPP, that’s all that matters
Jack is the secret herbs and spices
sofa safely away from the wall with ample space to hide
it’s freezing cold in London, but the atmosphere seems hot hot hot
Jack!!
We lose an attacker as Podolski has to track back and cover Santos, therefore he won’t last 90 minutes.
Evonne during the game:
very good point kelsey,it’s very frustrating. Santos looks like he has no confidence at all!
Oz
tough times call for tough meassures
3 times their keeper has already spilled the ball and each time only one forward in the box to take advantage to no avail.
foul??? what!
jacks shot had santi and giroud both running in
C’mon Arsenal.. lets sheke off this pre-season mode
You don’t need to be a genius to figure out that Ramsey on the right DOES NOT work.
sheke *shake
tomAto tomato
ppp = dumbass
what the hell! this umpiring is an f’n joke. nelson gets one,ramsey gives one for touching a bloke then nothing for getting flattened!!!
Bit worrying that we look more nervous than the bottom team.
This is a bit disjointed but already better than Naaarch and Schaaaalke.
We know our weak link, QPR have the same weakness in traore so take ramsey off (not needed ) and put on walcott
Not a bad call Kelsey, but Ramsey is doing a lot to keep Taraabt quiet.
you can hear a pin drop in the emirates ….
not right
agreed rocky, more attacking intent but still not the same Arsenal. Jack is a star though. I forgot just how good his close control was
Bolleaux!
Why couldn’t the keeper spill it that time, with OG a yard away!
PPP
Crowd are as nervous as the team, hence the atmosphere.
I know Rocky, i understand but you know its not right.. We are at home and it seems as though our opponents no longer fear us.. Your right, we look disjointed but i believe we will wrap this one up, but alot needs to be done on the training track..
Put into perspective we have now played what where the bottom two teams consecutively and it ain’t great..
First half performance started brightly and then slowly lost our urgency.giroud may well turn out to be a goal scorer for us,but for the moment we are screaming for a striker.
Sagna and wilshere both look fully composed and that’s a big plus.
Kelsey 2.59…no I;m 95% armchair these days. 3 games a season is about my limit in recent years.
The more children I have the less I go. Shame really cos theres a new train line from me in Sth London straight thru to H&I. It used to be real trek* to get there with buses tubes and trains
* Said with apologies to those coming from Notts, Cornwall and Norfolk
Oh and Kelsey… if I look at Bob Moffats pic upside down it really could be you !!
Oh yeah the game….
Decent game, but we need to maintain the higher tempo for longer periods..not just short bursts.
Don;t even wanna think about how flat we might have been without Lil Jack
I sense tension?
And me not watching the first half has not led to a change of fortunes, although we haven’t conceded so that’s a good thing right?
Cracking prematch as ever Raddy, I despise Hughes, but not as much as Pulis. Hughes used to annoy me when he was City manager the way he peacocked around the touch line as of he was a mercurial managerial talent, rather than what he was a lowly track suit manager who had lucked out into a club that got bought by the worlds richest family.
Sharkespeare I have it on good authority that this was Kelsey in his hey day!
tension GiE? hmm, its simmering at the moment, along way to go to get to the boil. We are missing the spark plugs, and safe is not our style…it works against us.. all text book for now
great pre-match big daddy. you never let us down
they are targeting Wilshere
OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO JACK…doesnt look good, hope its just a knock
Flash backs of swansea last season away..
Cmon Kick start my Heart
Hurry up with the subs, please
There are hints that Wilshere-Santos could turn into something really special.
come on pod! you’ve got this
Poldi territory top right pleeeeease!
is it just me or did those youtube vids of santi scoring free kicks leave you thinking he will score everyone?
I feel so let down when he misses!
Granero should be off
Traore you bloody rabbit stop jumping around like a twit!
Now you get punished for a perfect tackle..Refs a bimbo
Bring on Ox for Rambo and spread em, making space for Giroo
Ref’s rubbish.
that sounded awful PPP haha
Sagna is class
Jack off.
Theo on.
Ramsey into the middle, presumably.
GLiC would be proud
Jack off? Me no like
Need to grind out a win here, one way or another.
QPR have a lot of players with stupid hair.
16 min to go, at home against another bottom of table team.. i should not be worrying like this..cmon boys DIG DEEP
Gobsmacked
Oh Santi
Should have at least been on target.
OK – they’re down to 10 men, which the headline writers will enjoy if we fail to win.
Gerv off on a stretcher. Oh dear.
AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!!
ARTETA!!!!!!!!!
pinball purrfect!
actually Thank God…my palms are sweaty
Well done Arsh.
Bloody ell that was like pinball, quality cross by Arshavin, think Arteta was offside at some point though, but not on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th phase of play
Think you’re right about the offside GiE – but no mention from the commentators.
good boy Rambo
We’ve ramped it up well these last 15 mins or so.
Its opened up heaps Rocky since the sending off
Wow, that was a lucky let-off.
We need to focus and see this out
Just for once do you think we could stick it in the corner flag and hold it?
Great stop Mannone
Rocky can’t understand my commentators
Mannone just saved our bacons.
Ref is very very poor.
Phew…
Thank Dennis for that.
The result was all important today.
3pts !
what a relief….pheeeeew
phew…..
Not an overly convincing performance, but it would have looked a lot different if we had been coming off the back of two wins instead of two defeats.
There’s lots to work on, but it was an improvement on Norwich and Schalke.
lol its a hatrick of phews
Haha evonne and GiE… a lot of “phewing” going on.
The best thing the ref did this evening was ‘blow the full time whistle’
it was at times ugly, but im a happy chap.. Told you it was similar to Swansea last season when our challenge kicked off and snowballed to Christmas.. This is the same… And we will beat the Manure scum on their own cow paddock!
Happy days again
An offside goal is exactly what’s needed when things aren’t going too well!
A ragged performance with Jack the massive highlight. Great to see him and Sagna back, and it wouldn’t be players returning without another injury to put us back to swuare one! Hope it’s just a knock for Gerv.
Great result, very average performance, and a game that will only be remembered for Jacks return. My weekend will better than last week!
Up to 4th
Man of the match…I suppose their keeper
Winning ugly is an understatement. very grateful for the three points but on the whole a very disjointed performance. A lot of improvement needed and not sure if this win will boost confidence.
Not a match i would be eager to watch again.
I said earlier they were bruisers and at what cost.we will find out later.
Jack looked class in his first full game, it’s the striking department that worries me.
Ha Ha, just said “I wonder if someone has posted a Phew”
Can’t stay and chat as there are extra DidIt’s in the house.
Absolutely essential three points.
Phew ROLF
Nite or bye all.
Any win will bring confidence. Thought Giroud was unlucky with that towering header before Arteta got it in, good to see bodies in and around the box.
Thought Rambo looked good from what i saw of him last 40 minutes. Does a lot of unnoticed and unrewarding work.
Arshavin has that touch of class and nous which is worth having on the bench, and maybe if we find the right system even a starting place.
If we assume it is best to have our best players on the pitch, could we somehow re shape our 4-3-3 to include the likes of Arsh who sit on the bench.
I rather like the idea of 4-2-3-1, but i’m not sure the boss will.
Just to illustrate:
………..Arteta…………Jack……………..
…..Podolsi….Cazorla…..Arshavin…..
……………….Giroud……………………
Or maybe with Pod up top, Jack in the three and Ramsey sitting next to Mikel? Obviously Diaby would be preferable when fit.
Feel sorry for Jenks today, didn’t think he deserved to be dropped so quickly, but a bit of experience on the pitch was probably essential today.
GiE
Jenks didn’t deserve to be dropped, but Bac was outstanding. Put in some great crosses and defensively rock solid.
OG had a really, really good game up front, holding the ball up against a very big, physical team.
Santi and Arteta also very good.
Their ‘keeper played well – we could have had three or four.
Bit worrying that we gave them two very good chances after going one up.
BR
Belatedly – thanks for another superb prematch and another top beardsman.
I love when we get our game out of the way early, and bag the 3 points.. Now we can sit back and watch the others drop points, well some of the contenders..Today is esentially a 6 pointer
mad celebrations behind my sofa followed Arteta’s goal
I was reminded that it was only QPR we were playing. But frankly, a bus is a bus regardless if it is from Sutherland, Norwich or south of the river
I agree about Arsh, GIE but we don’t seem to have enough forwards to score, who can last 90 minutes. One of our previous strengths two seasons back was that we would really press with the attackers until the final whistle .
10 men or not, they looked more dangerous after we scoredwith 6 minutes + left. surely lessons can be learned from that..
Hopefully Kelsey hopefully they will take my instruction at 4:48 (ie stick it in the corner and hold it).
Remember a few seasons back when we didn’t see a game out in that way and Wenger said he couldn’t stop the team trying to play football (almost put it down to the impetuousness of youth), today we had enough experienced heads who could go and keep it in the corner.
Wow, this site is a breath of fresh air
Good to see our team getting their belief in their abilities back, with a grinding 1-0 London derby win.
Regarding Arsene’s 4-3-3 system, we are in the same company as Barcelona, Juventus, Lazio, PSG & Ajax.
Next match, Reading (to build momentum) and then onwards to Man Utd.
Have we got the players to make it work JM?
Wenger: “Wilshere, overall was quite positive, still lacks rhythm but he’ll get that. Gervinho, ankle problem – doesn’t look good”
“It was amazing to be back – words cannot describe it. I was just running around smiling. It’s great to be back.
“Last time I played it was with Fabregas and Nasri – now it’s with Artata and Cazorla who are great players too. It’s like a new team and I’m like a new player.”
Garth Crooks….talks a load of shite:
“Any manager other than Arsene Wenger at Arsenal would have got the sack. He is rebuilding but the rebuild for me is too slow. But in Arsenal’s credit today they worked their way back into the game and got the points that, really, I’m not sure they deserved.”
Right i’m offski for a Curry. See you all later.
Ramsey for me just doesn’t work in that right wing position, he’s too slow with the ball and getting past players/crossing isn’t his strong point too. Walcott did a much better job in that position the minute he came on. He upped the tempo just that little bit too, honestly hope he will sign a new contract ASAP along with Sagna who had a really good game. Wilshere was class too considering that this was his first league game in 17 months. It is clear that we still need an out and finisher and this should be Wenger’s #1 priority in the upcoming transfer window. Nevertheless, a very scrappy win and honestly Wenger needs to work his magic and get this team to start clicking together again before that match at OT next weekend. Wouldn’t want Van persie rubbing it in our face would we? In fact, Wenger might even want to give the first team another go against Reading just to improve the cohesion factor and to get this team clicking again.
By the way, Julio Cesar just showed us what a really good keeper could contribute to a team. Wenger might want to take a hint and start sniffing around for DECENT GKs either to back Sczesny up while hes out or act as a deputy as I feel that its a matter of time before Fabianski and Mannone leave.
Adrian
On the goalkeeping side, to be fair to Man One, he saved us at the end. It wasn’t a spectacular save but it was all about positioning and staying “big”, which he did very well.
And a lot of the reports are a bit schizophrenic: apparently we were pants, but QPR’s ‘keeper had a great game. Bit of a contradiction there, surely?
We were far from fluent, but a 3-0 win would not have been unjustified based on chances.
As I said earlier, if this performance had come after a couple of wins in previous games, we would be talking about it as a professional job, grinding out a good result without being at our best and so on.
Obviously the context of two p*ss-poor performances colours how many people view today’s outing.
Adrian is a really good keeper one that makes good saves?
Mannone’s one on ones saved the three points
Sorry that should have been multiple choice:
Is a really good keeper:
A) one that makes a lot of saves
B) one that makes great saves
C) one that doesn’t have to make saves cause he deals with the cross
For me it’s B and C. I think a really good/great keeper is like Schmeichel, Seaman, Kahn, or Southall. Maybe Buffon in the modern game is in that league.
Well said Rocky, and on that thought i would like to rest my head and say goodnight.. About 2hrs ago i asked Dennis for a win/3 points.. i did not care how i got them, i just wanted a building block and we got it, every Gooner on this planet would have taken a 1-0 to the Arsenal pre match.. Smiling today, and RoLFing 2moro when the spudz produce a knee-jerk loss
I might have phrased that wrongly, Julio Cesar not only made quite a few saves but made a couple of great saves as well, the most notable one being that rebound shot from just a yard out. Mannone’s performance today was decent as he didn’t have much to do, but he isn’t fully convincing yet as shown in his previous games.
Night P
Julio Cesar said after the game “QPR was not built in a day”
Kelsey
Have you come to bury him, or praise him?
Very good Kelsey.
I’m just home ………… anyone offered a match report????
I havent thought about it yet, but who do we want to win tomorrow, chelsea or united? I guess united?
jnyc
I guess a draw or (chokes on words) a ManUre win.
i think you will do a very good job at a report peaches, you were there .I am 1761 kilometres away
as weedonald would say.
There is still a lot of negativity about today’s performance (not here, thankfully) so, for some context:
Match Stats (Arsenal first)
Possession: 70% – 30%
Shots: 21 – 4
On Target: 11 – 3
Corners: 5 – 2
Yet Mark Hughes says QPR were in complete control and ‘the least they deserved’ was a draw.
How much did QPR pay for Cesar.? I thought it was minimal or even free, but i maybe wrong
RL,
another 5 minutes and they might have got a draw
Haha – true Kelsey
But it might also have been 2-0 to us with an extra 5 mins as they were wide open.
We’re second on MOTD
kelsey – have you follwed me, I followed you
Not a performance to boost the teams confidence. Against eleven it looked as if one point was the best we could hope for. In fact against ten, we conceded two great late chances to QPR, both through shocking defending.
Evening all, A well earned victory. We started without wingers and lacked pace up front. Ramsey put in a very good shift but he’s not quick enough for a winger – but not his fault he was played out of position. On the other side the Pod was not happy with Santos and barked at him quite a lot. I’d imagine that was because he couldn’t go forward when he was constantly called upon to defend.
We looked so much better with Gerv on the left, Theo on the right and Ramsey in the middle.
Jack played really well and looked our most attack minded midfielder. Hope Gerv’s ankle injury is not too serious, but fantastic to have Sagna back (he was very good).
Either Cazorla is still a bit off his game or perhaps opposition managers now set their stall up to stop him conducting our play.
Arteta was imense throughout and is my MotM
Great to see TMHT, GliC, VCC, chas and GoonerB at the rub-a-dub
yes i have, peaches
I see you changed a word rasp
This is what i was debating with richie yesterday about playing players out of position (when you mentioned ramsey)
Evening all, hope all our well? At least 3 got three points today and that was all that mattered today……
Equally pleasing today was getting a lovely text from Peaches, miss you all at the matches, hoping that I will be able to get myself to one very soon, so missing it, even if the football has been a tad awful at times…….
One interesting side note today, there was 3 champions league winners out there today, none on our side…..
And Jack is back…
Hi Harry, great to hear from you. Hopefully we can hook up at a game real soon.
I think Mannone should be heaped with praise, he made several important saves and generally dealt with crosses well.
Come on …… someone must want to write about our first victory for three weeks …………
Yes that would be good rasp, it so hard at the moment, these are the first CL matches I have missed at home for about 6 or 7 seasons, i think……so miss it……….
What was the atmosphere like today?
martin wen you gonna grow some balls?
I can see what Rocky means about split opinions on the game, I only watched the second half of the second half. What I saw looked ok going forward against a typically belligerent away defence at the Ems, we were a tad wasteful in fronts of goal, even when they had 11 men.
We had 14 shots before the red card (5 on target), and according to 442 stats app another 8 after that (4 on target).
Kelsey has already volunteered Peaches read 7.51.
I look forward to reading it.
A common gripe has been our inability to grind out results when playing below our best. Today we managed that and now people will comment that we didn’t win in style! Then when we win in style, people will moan that it style doesn’t win trophies!
It’s a funny old game…!
I’m going to enjoy these 3 points just as much as any. Have a great weekend Gooners.
Oooooo, a kelsey match report, how exciting!
An interesting game I thought, but how fickle are the footballing gods when they apportion there quotients of luck. Last week Mannone pushed one out and it went straight to an opposition player and cost us three points, this week Cesar pushes three out, not one goes to a red shirt and the ball is scrambled away.
Fortunately a blatant offside is missed by the Ref who allows the goal and we still collect three points.
Sparky is his normal charming self and accepts our good fortune with equanimity and grace as per the Sir Red nose school of footballing etiquette.
Early days yet but a confused league this season seems certain to cause much anxiety and uncertainty among football fans across the country. But us top four? Well the boss man says so and he has been right a few times on the bounce now, has he not?
Guess that will do for me.
By the way enjoyed your rant yesterday Kelsey and BR’s usual pre match quality today. Thanks guys.
Kelsey didn’t offer to write the match report, he was responding tom a question peaches asked him, we still need a volunteer
Thanks Rasp, you’re right, kelsey was responding to my question about following me on twitter…………….
……..so a volunteer is still needed to write a match report please.
I’ll put a match report in drafts Peaches.
Wow that deadened the site a bit peaches. 4 hours without a comment haha.
A lot of great comments made tonight. Particularly liked GiE’s formation. I’d definitely like to see a lot more of Arshavin. Hopefully gerv is okay, otherwise we will have no choice but too.
Are our subs warming up enough/properly before entering the game because first Ox, and now Gerv. Or just coincidence?
Oz
Ox’s injury was nothing to do with warming up – he got twatted in the hip by some big Norwich lump.
And Gerv got a kick on the ankle.
And by the way Oz, I notice that you laid low until I volunteered to do the report
I don’t want to cast a shadow over Rocky’s efforts as the poor chap is probably huddled around his paraffin lamp, nib in hand, as we speak, but….
Do we always have to have a match report. It causes Peaches match day worry, kills the site, and yet this is meant to be fun.
Everyone saw the game afterall.
If someone wants to, then brilliant, but feeling guilt is bad. What terrifies me the most is pissing off the sites’ most prolific and accomplished author (Rocky) and effectively relying on his good nature.
Oh bugger, the clocks have changed haven’t they!
Forwards or backwards? I’m confused, although I think I’m stuck on Islamabad time.
i kind of agree with that micky and everyone will either have seen the game live or on TV or at least highlights and all we need if peaches and rasp want a new post every day is just a few thoughts about the game as invariably as the day goes on we drift into different aspects of the game or individuals.
i have sent in two posts this week which for me is a lot and if I was doing a match report today it would have been quite blunt.
In a sentence: we got 3 points,Wilshere and Sagna were a pleasing sight to see return but otherwise not a game that will stick in the memory.
I have my own thoughts about the squad and it appears especially when looking for
a result we have more cameo players than regular 90 minute players
.The debate is, is that rotation or aren’t some players fit or good enough for a whole game , or otherwise is squad depth just not a standard of a club looking for trophies or at the least a top four position, even allowing for injuries.
Haven’t seen the game yet so cannot comment but delighted we won.
Bloody freezing in Gay Paris and
Spring forward, Fall back
Kelsey. It is too early to be so cheerful
Morning Kelsey and Raddy.
Interesting point about cameo players, Kelsey.
Thing is, we are where we are, and right now this is our squad, so how to get the most out of it. Next up Reading then Utd.
I’m always of the view that the League Cup should be for come-back players and fringe players, but this time I’d send out the first team for 45 mins only.
We need more playing time, particularly for the attacking side of our game to try and find some rhythm and understanding ahead of Utd.
Raddy,
Which Arrondissement are you staying in?
By the way Kelsey, you asked what I meant by The Arsenal “doing what they do best”…I can now answer that:
1-0 To The Arsenal
Kelsey,
I do think a posible answer to one small part of your multi-layered thinking lies in the contracts of certain players and how this cocks up possible transfer movements. Of course I’m thinking of Bendy, Chamakh, Theo and even Arshavin.
Exactly Micky, so does that mean Wenger is being stubborn and some of those players aren’t being selected even though they could add strength to any given game. Can we afford those luxuries ?
Multi layered thinking
Look you know how I feel. I don’t think we will make top 4 this season for a multitude of reasons, but I may not enjoy many games at the moment but you know I support the club and as GLIC said maybe I am frustrated ,and personal issues are clouding my judgement.
You have to be gentle with me, I am aging
Didn’t see the whole match, watched the highlights last night and they picked out Jacks return for special coverage, he looked every bit as good as i remember.
Some people will argue that we shouldn’t rely on a 21 year old, but for me of you have the best young player in the country theres no shame in relying on him.
Just watching highlights of City v Swansea…..a lot of empty blue seats
I did nothing of the sort Rocky! I’ll have you know I was about to offer then I saw your comment so I gracefully withdrew my proposal haha
Micky due to the injury risks I’d be sticking out reserves in the League Cup.
Still be reasonably good squad.
Twitter rumour mill suggests Szczesny avail for United not Gibbs. Lots of talk of Verm going to left back. Think I’d probably stick with Santos.
My hopes for today’s result:
Chelsea – Utd DRAW (plus twenty man brawl)
Saints – Spuds HOME WIN
Toon – West Brom HOME WIN/DRAW
Toffees – Dippers DRAW/AWAY WIN
Then we will be 4th and I’ll wonder what all the fuss has been about
Berbatov was immense for Fulham yesterday, how interesting. Schwarzer was shit.
Slim – spot on. We have critisized ourselves for not being able to do a Manyoo and win while playing rubbish. Yesterday we proved that we can grind results. A win is a win is 3 points, end of.
GiE – you are such a sweetie
May I add a couple of broken legs for the Chelsea fixture? One on each side will do me
yes, Sagna and Jack were great. The filthy bastards targeted Jack in the first half, but a yellow card stopped them from injuring him.
I’d be interested to see what everyone’s strongest XI would be. I think there would be a fair amount of agreement over the back five and the middle three, but the front three….I don’t thinkArsene even knows the answer to that one.
Theo right? I don’t think Theo thinks Theo is right sided player, and anyway, is Arsene freezing him out ahead of january? Ramsey? Not for me. Ox…mmm, maybe.
What about the left? Pod or Gerv?
I think we will need to be at our best next weekend (although we do up our performances against the Big Boys anyway), but the attack needs surgery.
Micky – for Wednesday? I don’t care if we play 3rd team and lose. One competition less to worry about
Micky I think we need a small change in formation of midfield and attack to get the best from our new players.
I also think that we don’t need to name our best 11 in a 4-3-3 but actually our best 11 players and find a formation that gets them all on the pitch.
So for me 3-4-3 probably does it.
GIE,
Although I agree about your thinking and the three at the back, I cannot see AW adopting it. For me, the left side only works with Gibbs as he enables either Pod or Gerv to get on with their jobs.
The right side is a real problem, as I believe there is a major issue with Theo, both in terms of his contract, as well as where he/AW sees his ideal position, and I don’t see a potent alternative.
Evonne,
I do agree with you over wenesday, its just that I’m worried about going to The Toilet next weekend with so little cohesion and understanding amongst our attack.
But Micky the brilliance of 3-4-3 is it allows Gibbs to stay on the pitch (and means that Santos isn’t such a liability of required to play
)
……………….Szczesny…………….
…………………BFG…………………
……..Kozzer…………Vermy…….
Sagna………Arteta………..Gibbs
………………..Jack…………………
……..Cazorla……….Podolski….
……………….Theo…………………
Damn GIE,
I’ve just completed your homework ie name “best 11 players and find a formation that gets them all on the pitch”, and I have:
No goalkeeper and No attack!
Does my startling conclusion finally put to bed the Total Football idiotic theory?
Bloody hell GiE…I DO like that
You should Patent that. 1-2-3-1-2-1
Even that bright spark Herbert Chapman never thought of it
Morning session closed I think.
Have a god day all.
Day of the Lord it may be for some, but I did mean have a GOOD day all
Heard a great quote the other day that might be a good title for today’s match report.
Went something like:
‘Turn a step back into a comeback’
Think that’s exactly what we did last season and hopefully we can do the same again.
Turn a set-back into a comeback.
That sounds more like it!
Morning all
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